Charlie Rose Talks to Wipro’s Azim Premji

How do you assess what India is doing in the realm of educationand population?
There’s a reasonable amount of traction in college education, particularly engineering, because quite a lot of that is privatized, so there is an incentive to set up new colleges of reasonably high quality. But if you talk about primary and secondary education, particularly in the villages of India, it’s a disaster. Not enough is being done, which is why my philanthropic foundation has been so involved in it.

What do you think of the possibility that Europe will experience rougher times?
Given that everyone is guided by self-survival, given the fact that European leaders have seen what sitting on the fence did to the U.S. in terms of a D rating, and the spark it sent off in the mood of the country, I am positive you will see something coming out by Monday [Oct. 24]. They have to work the system to get a consensus on it. That will mean pain.

It’s been said that it’s almost easier to do business in China than in the U.S. Do you think that’s true?
Our experience is that it is not terribly difficult to do business in China. But the issue is, how much stability do you have in terms of what you negotiate up front and when you’ve got your feet and your investments on the ground. We have not been there long enough to really be wise about commenting on it. But in any situation which is ruled as precisely as China is ruled, obviously permissions will be much easier because it doesn’t have to go through a major diplomatic process.

What are your concerns about India’s future?
I’m particularly optimistic. And I attribute that to the entrepreneurship of India, to the extremely vibrant democracy across all levels of education. That’s fundamental to a successful society in the long run. So whatever aberrations you see now about governance, I think it’s good, because it’s been a major wakeup call for the people and for the government. And you know, it’s not just corruption at the top, it’s also corruption at the level where a person wants his death certificate, his land certificate, his subsidized food. So far as the common man is concerned, there is a high possibility that in the next couple of years, a lot of the hassle he or she goes through can be significantly mitigated if the government is sincere.

China has seen the rise of the largest number of people ever to leave poverty and go into the middle class. Is that happening in India as well?
Not as fast as it’s happened in China. Inflation is taking up the poverty line, and poverty is not just economic but defined by way of health and education. But things today are certainly better. And you see that in rapidly increasing rural demand in the country, in towns, and villages. That cannot be happening unless there is wealth being created at the grass roots. The government could be doing it better, but I think they’ve done a reasonably good job on that.

Do you think democracy over the long run will mean that China will be outpaced by India?
China will have to adopt some form of modified democracy. I think the advantage of democracy is that it makes us less dependent on a group of leaders. It’s a more broad-based way of getting consensus in how the country goes forward. And it’s inherent to human desire. I don’t think any country in the world can hold it back beyond a point of time. You’re seeing this experience in the Middle East. China is clever enough to realize that they will have to adapt the way they rule.

What are your reservations about the U.S.?
The U.S. is a complex country. It has a high predominance of immigrants who have been eminently successful. But in the past 20 years, government has increased spending on jails by six times in the U.S., whereas the per capita spending on education has remained the same.

How is Wipro doing?
It’s doing well, but I think we’ll do much better. We have made changes in terms of succession, leadership, the way we have simplified the business, made it faster on its feet. The U.S. used to account for 70 percent of our business; now it accounts for under 55 percent. We have built up in Europe, the Middle East, Australia…. We are now building up in Latin America and Africa successfully. So we have a broad portfolio of very focused areas.