00:00Waste is an inevitable part of our lives and an ever growing problem. The World Bank warns of a dramatic increase by 2050. And so finding new ways to manage our trash and water waste has become all the more urgent. On this episode of Leaders with Laqua Goes Green, I speak to the chief executive of the world's largest environmental services company, Veolia. Estelle Brachlianoff says waste management has become fashionable as the effects of climate change become more extreme and governments and companies ramp up efforts to curb pollution. Estelle thank you so much for joining us on leaders with Lacqua. Thank you. So if somebody met you on the street and they say, what do you do for a living? You're in charge of Veolia. How would you describe your job? Good question. I would say, I'm here to, transform industries and cities so that they produce less carbon, consume less water, and consume less materials. So to have the plant to be greener in other terms, that's what I do for a living. It's a big job. And you work with water, energy and waste. How have the three how different are they to manage? So another way of saying it is my market. What is it? It's ecological transformation. And in other words, it's, decarbonization of course, but decontamination or de-pollution if you want as well. So removing pollutants so I can protect your health, mine and everybody else's. Same with recycling and circular economy. That's the market to operate. It's a huge one. €2.5 trillion every year. And it's fast growing and faster every day. So in a way, you can see, see it both ways. You know, the more the planet warms and it is, the more you have water scarcity. but the good, the good part of it is we have solutions. And my job is to implement duplicate scale of the solution and to be quicker because, the planet won't wait, and we won't wait. I mean, the human on this planet as well. And these are solutions that you find there's a lot of focus on innovation. Where do you fit in in that supply chain of delivering innovation to to be greener in the future? I guess, you know, we consider that to solve the problem. I've said, we already have half of the solution, and my priority is to scale them up, to deploy them in the many as many places I can. The other half, you have to invent them. And that's where, innovation takes place. We, having a lot of patents every single day, and we can do stuff now, which five years ago was considered crazy. recycle things like electric car batteries. Which five years ago we thought, wow, you know, we'll never be able to do that. We are able to recycle cold water almost infinitely. We are able to remove pollutants in water, things which, you know, like five years or ten years ago we didn't know how to do. And I will have the same conversation in five years and you will discover that we found ways for other stuff as well. Is bigger, better? Yes, it is. but I guess, let's not forget another component, which is it has to be affordable as well. So I guess efficiency is a way to make all those solutions good not only for the planet, but for everybody's, you know, capacity of purchasing power. So as well as to protect your health. so I guess I'm not here to save anything, but you know where to protect health, to protect quality of living, to protect purchasing power. Have you seen a shift in appetite and actually talking about the green agenda or green issues with investors, but also with cities? what's interesting is it's time, we can see a kind of a, a shock of discovering solutions which are scalable and, here now. And when the general public discovers that usually we have a take off of, I guess demand that was the case of recycling I think you're right plastic recycling has been booming. That's the case of, all the solution. We have to tackle water scarcity and water quality now. And that's not by chance. It came after summers of droughts in countries where we thought we will never be lacking water. And suddenly you realize, oh, it may happen. so I guess you have moments of taking off an acceleration. that's more the way I would see that. So it's as much the, and on energy as in the ability to produce energy locally as opposed to import fossil fuel. So I'm talking about bioenergy you can produce from waste water from wasted heat from waste on own recyclable waste that has taken off with the war in Ukraine. because people thought, you know what? Instead of importing fossil fuel, what about we tap into the reservoir we have under our feet in every single of our, communities, but it feels like it's a crisis that's being dealt with one at a time. So recycling was a big thing 3 or 4 years ago, and I don't know whether you're taking it. You're seeing a back step in recycling less or being less decisive with recycling, or it's just that this keeps on going ahead. We just talk about it less, I guess so. It's more the latter. as in, there is no big backwards, and there is no backwards in recycling. There is no being backwards in treating pollutants in the water. there is no way backwards in, in, in producing local energy. But you're right the trends at times of what you talk in, in the press may be, may be different from one crisis to the next. My job is to go beyond crisis, to anticipate. That's why innovation we knew we could do, recycling of plastics for years. Nobody was really interested in that. And suddenly it takes off. But we found a solution in the meantime. So in a way, my job as a chief exec is to deal with the short term and to be able to deliver essential services even in time of crisis, as well as to see the long term. So as you take out the nasty stuff, as you say, out of some of these water products, do you see actually more of them being added? I know there's a number of studies on microplastics, and wherever we find them, especially in the brain, in the water, do you see the amount of some of the things that is harmful being used more? And so does it make it your job more difficult to then purify that? I guess, the way I would say it is like a science progresses and makes progress. So we discover more things. Does it mean that they are new? But we maybe didn't have the, the knowledge about them? Again, the good news is to anticipate. So we are able to treat them as we, discovered their existence. And the problem associated with it. We are able to treat typhus within Veolia end to end solution, whatever type of typhus we have. So so what's your biggest challenge, for example, in that to become more scalable? Is it getting the money from governments or from cities, or is it actually building them fast enough? So how could I speed up, in a way, it's a question I constantly ask myself and I'm sure scale up and speed up. And, you know, it's fair to say that I'm quite demanding to my team in terms of, can we go faster? Because, again, fellow citizens are craving for, you know, us bringing the solution. more Veolia faster is good news for all of us. You know it. so, I guess what do we need to be efficient? We need, money. We usually can find it. And we have money, available to actually, in many, many places. we need to clear, let's say, legal framework. So stability of the legislation is key there we need, as well of the citizens to be on board and to understand to the general public to understand. But we've conveyed a survey, across, 25 countries and 25,000 people across the globe in many, many countries. And this is clear now, the general public understand that, the cost of inaction will be higher than the cost of action. So they are asking, for this type of solutions, and then you need people like us to invent the solution and to have the scale, to be able to deploy them and to invest in innovation as well. And our politicians on board. It seems like politics gets in the way of green technologies, but not always in, for example, health stories. I guess, in an ideal world, to be able to go quicker. What do you need from politician stability, constituent framework? This is absolutely key. which we don't always have. We? We would we are the one, you know, like trying to find the best technology possible to be able to deliver in the most efficient and affordable and system that one way possible. But we need a framework. So we need everybody on board, politician, general, public company like us and the financial system as well, all that align. everybody has a all the one I mentioned has a role to play in this. Coming up: Estelle Brachlianoff on artificial intelligence as both a tool and an obstacle to a more sustainable future. Innovation is central to waste management. Without technology, the world would simply be overwhelmed by trash. Artificial intelligence is part of the solution, but it's also part of the problem as data centers put energy and water supplies at risk. I continue the conversation with the Veolia chief executive. To achieve a lot of your targets, and we talk about innovation, but you have to, I guess, identify the problem. Does AI help? AI can be part of the solution and is a problem at the same time. So if I start with a problem data centers, they consume a lot of energy. and they need a lot of water. So actually we're providing services to the companies which are, doing AI and it's a growing market. On the other side, AI can benefit ecological transformation and saving water, saving energy, saving CO2 and so on, so forth. and can make a company like Veolia more efficient. And actually, we are doing already quite a lot on AI. What we are testing, are ways to be optimizing downtime in our plant, for instance, by being more efficient in tracking where the problem is, and actually it can help to save enormous time. Of course, with everything with, call centers, you know be always very helpful. we already have, you know, a lot of digital tools, and these are already helping the company. But the next generation, we're having a look. When I say we're having a look, we know it would work. the question we ask ourselves is, does it worth it? So we know it would work. So we are trying to quantify the benefit in euros. Again, the costs in euros and the costs in actually a negative impact on water and everything. and we're I tried one or the other and we probably will have a few where it's super interesting, but does the cost automatically come down in years to come or not necessarily. I guess, the type of solution I'm talking about, will the cost of the solution will come down if we deploy ourselves more and more. So the scale will be important. So if I have a tool which works for only two plants, there is a big bet that, you know, it won't worth it. If I can deploy it into 2000 units across the globe, then that may be a business case for it. It's a case for energy efficiency. We do already a lot, but we can do more. do you realize that in 80% of the case, when you install sensor on a building and you monitor live and you optimize it, AI can help. You can save 15 to 20% of energy without changing anything massive. But it's an upfront cost. It's usually an upfront cost. So there has to have a business return for it of course. Are we underestimating how much energy I need? That's this is a negative. actually in the US, it's very much at the forefront of a lot of people's agenda. Water is not yet, but it's, starting to go up because I need a lot of energy as well as water, typically to cool down the datacentres. But the good news is we can recycle water, and we can use the wasted heat. And we are providing those type of services as well. So there is a solution. Pretty much to a lot of things. As long as you go on and never give up. Are you excited then about. Am I'm, I'm, excited as long as you pick the right opportunities and don't go for full AI on everything when you don't need it, neither. and I would say denial, as in, yes, you can bring solutions. So, as long as you pick the right battles, I think it can bring a lot of value, including to save a water waste and energy. So as we all try and become greener, maybe waste less. Is there anything in your in your personal life that you do differently now to five years ago? Oh, interesting questions. probably, probably the usual one is of flying only when I need, and I'm going more for, like everybody else, I guess for, for, video when you can, at times, nothing replaces the real contact or the real visit or everything. but at times you can very well do with, you know, video on everything. So that's an obvious one and of course, if you think about water, you have a lot of things at home, which you are very much more careful, when you know that, for instance, if you have your tap open 12l per minute, that's enormous. If you realize that you will think differently about your daily life as well, So turn the tap off when you brush your teeth exactly. Coming up, Estelle Brachlianoff on why she believes she has the dream job. Estelle Brachlianoff has been at Veolia for almost two decades and in the top job for two years. She's witnessed and helped guide the company's global growth. I asked her about her own journey and why she's optimistic about Veolia's future. You love your job. I do. What do you love most about it? I love Veolia it's a great company for lots of reasons, the work we do, the job we do as a business, we're in, which is wonderful. We are part of the solution. And also, I cannot dream of a better company to work for everybody's engaged to try and help and deliver results, solutions. I love this vibration of excitement. I love the variety of it. you know, you would be from one day with a great level politician, national wide, with a blue collar worker, with a technician, whatever. And it's very varied and, yeah, it's fair to say, I try to set ambitious goals, but which are realistic at the same time as what times you feel like you have the the head in the sky and the stars, but, very much grounded at the same time to try to say, okay, you have to manage to manage both. And this is very important to you, that actually you whatever you say you want to stick to, is that is that because of your personality or is it something that is just required in business? Oh, I won't I won't listen to anyone. This is the way I am. Probably more than anything. I'm more, you know, like, let's, let's do something together, you know, together with a team. And I would roll up my sleeves myself and go with them and fight the battles we have to fight. But together, if I feel like we can win it rather than say, okay, you should. And then I go into another road. So it's more probably my style of management as well. I mean, it's interesting because you have an industry that's not considered very sexy and actually it's so crucial to changing our economies used to be not very sexy, but I can see we have a lot of incoming calls from people wanting to join the company because they feel like, okay, you're in the back part of the good part again of, of, try and deliver a solution. So when you look at 2024, 2025 and beyond, do leaders and CEOs have to have a conscience? They do have a conscience. So who am I to say they should? I guess the way I would think of it myself will be more I'm the same human being at home than I am when I'm a chief executive. Yeah, this is the same person. so I'm not saying, you know, I have a split Estelle that's more the way I would say it. And I'm proud of what we do. It's tough. I'm a fighter. I think I never give up. But in the end, we are all super proud about what we do. Where did you learn that? To fight or never give up? Probably. I always had it in me. I guess. but I guess I'm very much when there is a will. there's a way type of lady, and, love, to be with, to be with a team as well. so I guess love this, team atmosphere of, you know, everybody has a a view and you have a diverse views on things and learn from that. And then you go even beyond what you would even have imagined before. I was appointed two years ago. You know, what's, It's even better than what I thought. What did you think it'd be like? You never exactly know how it's going to be like, but I guess it's even better. You know, we've achieved stuff I never even could have dreamt we would have achieved. So we've been able to deal with when you think about the number of crises we've been able to deal with, in the last two years, and whilst constantly delivering results, which are growing quarter after quarter. But we all have bad days in the office. What does an Estelle bad day look like? Failure, of course, you know, have a lot. So that wouldn't be necessarily a bad day. It's more what do you do with it? Okay, I've missed this one. What can I do next differently so that it works better? What, frustration that, you know, things don't move maybe as fast as, as I, I think it should, would be probably, okay. There's no, no, let's rest a little bit, and go on. You know, that would be probably one, and, maybe when I don't have the right mixture of the blue sky and the ground, when I have too much of the theory or too much of the very much, too much daily. maybe I need a little bit of both. What do you think you'd change? Every time you speak to a chief executive they say, look in your first three, six months in the job, that's when you can make changes. So shorter meetings, longer meetings, more travel, less travel, work life balance, whatever it is. What was your North Star? So, what's, what's interesting for me, it's it's been, chief exec for two years, so I had my three months and six months, but I've been in the company for almost 20 years. so there was already a lot of things that I've done being number two of the company before, and so on and so forth. So it's more, even going even further than, totally on. And off, like for other type of situations. I guess, I guess the, the target, I still have, will be to try and free time on my agenda to be able to, I guess, let the dust settle a bit and, think a little bit to head off, interact with people without having to be efficient. As in, directly deliver on that there on this specific item. That's something I haven't properly, fully yet. that's something but I've changed a lot of things. I've, the company is more international that it used to be, in its figures, but interesting mindsets and probably more inclusive of people coming from different backgrounds. I think another question we like asking our chief executives is, would you ever actually hire a climate denier in 2024? I'm not so sure they are that many. If I may, you you can see around people saying, oh, okay, I know there is a problem, but it's too late. There is nothing to do. So let's not do anything. I think we've moved from the climate denier to the, doom and gloom. There is nothing we can do about it, so let's not do anything. in my opinion, on the vast majority, I guess, I guess, trying to interact with people and convince them is always interesting. So you like the challenge? Yes. I do like challenges. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received? there would be the one. And, trust your gut feel would be another one. go from the brain and thinking to the okay, I feel like we could go this route. Probably those two. And what do you do in the next five years if I speak to you in five years, where will you be? Hopefully I will have the same enthusiam energy and excitement about, you know, running this wonderful company which will be even bigger and more successful, in five years than it is already now and, and, have the impression that, have I've had an impact with my team, impact on, you know, CO2 on water and maybe impact on the the vision on the what used to be an unsexy company, as you said, or no sexy industry. Okay. That would be it. Estelle, thank you so much for your time. Thank you.

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Leaders With Lacqua Goes Green: Veolia CEO

Francine Lacqua sits down with Estelle Brachlianoff, CEO of the world's largest environmental-services company, Veolia. Brachlianoff has been at Veolia for almost two decades, and at the helm for two years, helping to guide the company's global growth. She talks about how waste management has become fashionable as the effects of climate change become more extreme, and why she believes there's a solution to every environmental challenge. Leaders With Lacqua Goes Green features interviews with key decision makers across a range of industries to see how they're navigating the climate transition. (Source: Bloomberg)