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  • 00:00AND WE WELCOME THE DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL. THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US. CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR POSITION. GIVE US THE REACTION OF THE WHITE HOUSE TO THESE NUMBERS. GUEST: SURE. I THINK YOU WERE USING THE RIGHT WORDS, WHICH IS "DISAPPOINTING." IT IS CLEAR THAT JOBS GROWTH INSTALLING, 10 MILLION JOBS SHORT OF WHERE WE WERE PRE-PANDEMIC, SO FOR US, THIS REPORT AND THE TREND OVER THE LAST THREE MONTHS UNDERSCORES THE NEED FOR THE PRESIDENT'S AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN. IT SHOWS A NEED TO GO BIG, IT SHOWS A LOT OF SERIOUS NEEDS IN THIS COUNTRY THAT REQUIRES AN URGENT ACTION ON BEHALF OF CONGRESS, SO THIS MORNING, WE ARE COMING OUT AND DOUBLING DOWN ON THE NEED FOR THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN TO PASS CONGRESS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. DAVID: WE SAW THE PRESIDENT BRIEFLY TODAY, AND I BELIEVE WE WILL SEE HIM AGAIN. WHAT IS THE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL ADVISING HIM? MR. RAMAMURTI: WE ARE ON TRACK TO REACH THE LEVEL WE WERE AT UNEMPLOYMENT PRE-PANDEMIC, AND I THINK IT UNDERSCORES THE NEED AGAIN FOR SERIOUS RELIEF. IF YOU LOOK AT THE CBO'S REPORT THAT CAME OUT EARLIER THIS WEEK, IT SHOWS IF WE DO NOT TAKE ANY ACTION, IT WILL TAKE UNTIL ROUGHLY 2025 UNTIL WE ARE BACK TO PRE-PANDEMIC LEVELS OF UNEMPLOYMENT, AND I THINK THAT IS AN UNACCEPTABLE TREND, AND IT IS UNACCEPTABLE FOR THIS PRESIDENT TO WAIT YEARS AND YEARS AND PUT THAT KIND OF PROLONGED UNEMPLOYMENT ON THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHEN WE HAVE THE ABILITY AND THE CAPACITY TO PASS A PLAN THAT SENDS RELIEF TO THE PEOPLE WHO NEEDED AND SPEEDS UP OUR ECONOMIC RECOVERY. DAVID: THE NUMBERS, AS YOU KNOW WELL, SHOWS ABOUT 9.9 MILLION JOBS LOST BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC, AND OF THOSE, I UNDERSTAND FOR MILLION ARE LONG-TERM UNEMPLOYED, MORE THAN 27 WEEKS. WHAT SPECIFICALLY CAN WE DO FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS? MR. RAMAMURTI: I THINK TWO THINGS. NUMBER ONE, AS YOU KNOW, THERE IS A SHARP RISE IN LONG-TERM UNEMPLOYMENT. THAT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM THAT, AGAIN, UNDERSCORES THE NEED TO ACT QUICKLY, BECAUSE THERE IS A SCORING EFFECT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE LONG-TERM UNEMPLOYED. SECRETARY ELLEN HAS TALKED ABOUT THIS IN WRITING ABOUT THIS IN HER PREVIOUS WORK, SO IT SHOWS THAT WE NEED TO ACT QUICKLY TO ADDRESS THAT PROBLEM. NUMBER TWO, GETTING OUR ECONOMY BACK TO FULL EMPLOYMENT AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE IS A WAY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE LONG-TERM UNEMPLOYED CAN GET BACK INTO THE LABOR MARKET, CAN GET BACK INTO A GOOD JOB, SO THAT IS THE GOAL OF THIS PACKAGE, TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ADDRESS THE NEEDS OF PEOPLE RIGHT NOW AND THAT WE PUT OURSELVES ON A TRACK TO GET BACK TO FULL EMPLOYMENT AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE SO THAT THERE IS A POSITIVE PRESSURE, SO THAT THE LONG-TERM UNEMPLOYED CAN GET BACK INTO A JOB, GET BACK TO GETTING A PAYCHECK. DAVID: AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO FOCUS ON, MR. RAMAMURTI, THE RELIEF FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE UNEMPLOYED AS OPPOSED TO GETTING THEM BACK TO JOBS. I UNDERSTAND THE $1.9 TRILLION WOULD GIVE A LOT OF RELIEF TO PEOPLE. DOES IT GET ANYBODY EMPLOYEE? MR. RAMAMURTI: NUMBER ONE, THE WAY TO GET OUR ECONOMY BACK AND RUNNING AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE IS TO BEAT COVID AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. I THINK THAT WILL TOTALLY CLEAR. A KEY ELEMENT OF THE PRESIDENT'S RESCUE PLAN IS A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY TO SPEED UP VACCINE DISTRIBUTION, TO ACTUALLY GET SHOTS IN PEOPLE'S ARMS. THAT WILL BE A KEY PART OF GETTING THE. ECONOMY MOVING AGAIN QUICKLY. . ANOTHER KEY PART OF GETTING THE ECONOMY MOVING QUICKLY IS GETTING THE SCHOOLS OPEN SAFELY AND QUICKLY. THE PRESIDENT CALLED FOR FUNDING FOR K-12 SCHOOLS SO THAT THEY CAN REOPEN QUICKLY AND THAT PARENTS HAVE THE OPTION OF SENDING THEIR KIDS BACK TO SCHOOL, SO THEY CAN GET BACK TO WORK AS NEEDED. I THINK EACH OF THE ELEMENTS OF THIS PACKAGE ARE DESIGNED, NUMBER ONE, TO GET THE ECONOMY UP AND MOVING AGAIN AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, BUT, NUMBER TWO, TO MAKE SURE THAT THE FAMILIES THAT MOST NEED IT GET THE RELIEF THAT THEY NEED TO MAKE IT THROUGH THAT PERIOD OF THE PANDEMIC. DAVID: AS YOU SAY, WE ARE A CONSUMER-DRIVEN ECONOMY, TO A VERY LARGE DEGREE. WE HAVE HAD A LOT OF STIMULUS ALREADY, STILL $900 BILLION COMING TO THE PIPELINE, AND A LOT OF THAT HAS GONE INTO SAVINGS, NOT INTO SPENDING. WHAT ASSURANCE DO WE HAVE THAT THIS WILL GO INTO SPENDING, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK WE WILL NEED IN ORDER TO GET THOSE JOBS BACK? MR. RAMAMURTI: IF YOU SIT DOWN AND LOOK AT THE NUMBERS COMING IS PRETTY CLEAR THAT BEYOND MARCH, WHICH IS WHEN THE CURRENT RELIEF EXPIRES, SO, FOR EXAMPLE, PRINT ON DEPLOYMENT INSURANCE BENEFITS ARE SET TO EXPIRE IN MID-MARCH. THERE WILL BE NEEDED AFTER THAT, SIGNIFICANT NEED, AND WHILE OUR PRESIDENT AND HIS TEAM IS WORKING AS HARD AS THEY CAN TO MAKE SURE WE GET THROUGH THIS PANDEMIC AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, IT IS ALSO CLEAR THERE WILL BE NEEDS BEYOND MARCH. SO PROVIDING A FURTHER BRIDGE FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO MAKE IT THROUGH ALL THE WAY TO THE OTHER SIDE IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT. TO GIVE YOU A FEW OF THE NUMBERS HERE, ALMOST 17 MILLION AMERICANS ARE BEHIND ON RENT AND ARE FACING POTENTIAL EVICTION IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC. SO THE RESCUE PLAN PROVIDES THEM WITH RENTAL ASSISTANCE. AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN CUTS PARTY BY -- POVERTY BY BRINGING 5 MILLION CHILDREN OUT OF POVERTY OVER THE COURSE OF THIS YEAR. ALL OF THAT IS QUICKLY IMPORTANT TO REDUCING SUFFERING. LOOK, IT IS IMPORTANT TO THINK ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE ECONOMY IS MORE THAN JUST A BUNCH OF NUMBERS, RIGHT? THE ACTUAL WELL-BEING OF AMERICAN FAMILIES -- AND I KNOW THAT IS WHERE THE PRESIDENT'S FOCUS IS -- THE FACT THAT WE WOULD BE OLD TO BRING DOWN POVERTY BY 5 MILLION THIS YEAR, THE FACT THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE THOSE MILLIONS OF FAMILIES WHO DO NOT KNOW IF THEY CAN MAKE THEIR NEXT RENTAL PAYMENT, THAT IS CENTRAL TO THE PRESIDENT'S THINKING. DAVID: LARRY SUMMERS, FORMER TREASURY SECRETARY UNDER A DEMOCRAT AS WELL AS FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL HAS A PIECE OUT IN THE "WASHINGTON POST," AND HE CERTAINLY BELIEVES THAT WE NEED TO GO BIG, THERE NEEDS TO BE STIMULUS, BUT HE SAYS IF YOU LOOK AT THIS, IT MAY BE TOO MUCH. IF YOU LOOK AT THE OUTPUT GAP, AS MEASURED BY HIS CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE, THIS MIGHT BE SEVERAL TIMES THE OUTPUT GAP, AND WE MIGHT BE BETTER OFF USING IT FOR THE BUILD BACK BETTER PART OF THIS ON INTRA-STRUCTURE. DO YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE THAT THIS WOULD EXCEED THE OUTPUT GAP CURRENTLY, AND IF IT DOES, WHAT SENSE DOES THAT MAKE? MR. RAMAMURTI: WELL, I KNOW THERE IS A LOT OF RESPECT FOR LARRY SUMMERS, BOTH FROM THE PRESIDENT AND THE REST OF THE ADMINISTRATION, BUT WE, FRANKLY, DISAGREE HERE. I THINK FROM SECTOR YELLEN, ALL OF THE PRESIDENT'S ECONOMIC ADVISERS, THEY HAVE MADE CLEAR THAT THE RISK OF DOING TOO LITTLE FAR OUTWEIGH THE RISKS OF DOING TOO MUCH. LARRY SUMMERS ACKNOWLEDGES SOME OF THIS IN HIS FEES AS WELL. THE RISK OF DOING TOO LITTLE IS THE ONE IN SEVEN AMERICAN FAMILIES THAT ARE GOING HUNGRY RIGHT NOW ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO GO HUNGRY. 7 MILLION AMERICANS WHO ARE BEHIND ON THEIR RENT COULD BE EVICTED IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC. THOSE ARE REAL RISKS THAT FAMILIES ARE TAKING ON RIGHT NOW, AND THE RISKS ARE GROWING TO BEG, GIVEN THIS SITUATION THAT WE ARE AT, PALE IN COMPARISON TO THE RISKS OF GOING TO SMALL, AND THE PRESIDENT REITERATED THAT THIS MORNING. AGAIN, WE RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE, AND THE BULK OF ECONOMIC ANALYSIS OF THE PLAN, WHETHER IT IS FROM MOODY'S, FROM THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION, ALL OF THEM ARE SAYING THAT THE RESCUE PLAN IS WELL TAILORED TO THE APPLICANT ON MY CRISIS WE ARE IN RIGHT NOW. DAVID: TO BE CLEAR, LARRY SUMMERS AGREES THAT THERE SHOULD BE STIMULUS AND THE STIMULUS, HE IS JUST QUESTIONING THIS PARTICULAR APPROACH. AND WHAT ABOUT THE POINT THAT YOU MAY BE USING UP WHAT HE CONSIDERS FISCAL SPACE FOR FUTURE GROWTH BY USING UP NOW WHEN WE DO NOT NEED QUITE AS MUCH AS YOU ARE ASKING FOR. MR. RAMAMURTI: LOOK, I THINK THE FIRST GOAL IS TO GET TO THIS CRISIS AND DELIVER RELIEF TO THOSE WHO NEED IT, AND THE PRESIDENT'S PLAN IS WELL TAILORED TO PROVIDE THAT RELIEF. WE CAN'T SKIMP ON THAT. WE NEED TO PROVIDE RELIEF TO THE FAMILIES WHO NEED IT. BUT I THINK THE PRESIDENT HAS ALSO MADE CLEAR THAT THIS IS ONLY STEP ONE. STEP TWO IS A RECOVERY PLAN THAT ALLOWS US TO BUILD BACK BETTER AND MAKE LONG-TERM INVESTMENTS IN INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT WE NEED TO HAVE A PRODUCTIVE AMERICAN ECONOMY FOR DECADES TO COME. WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE SKIMPING ON THAT, EITHER. THERE ARE DEEP NEEDS IN THIS
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