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00:00GROWING CONFLICT OVER WHAT U.S. TRADE POLICY SHOULD BE. HE HAS WRITTEN ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCE IN A NEW BOOK " TRADE IS NOT A FOUR-LETTER WORD. " CONGRATULATIONS ON THE BOOK. TELL US WHY WE HAVE SUCH AN ATTITUDE TOWARD TRADE IN THIS COUNTRY, WHERE WE HAVE A TENDENCY TO SAY MAY BE A NECESSARY EVIL, BUT IT IS AN EVIL. > > THAT ' S BEEN CHANGING. GALLUP RECENTLY DID A POLL, AND IT ' S BEEN GOING UP, A MAJORITY THINK TRADE AND IMPORTS ARE BETTER FOR OUR ECONOMY THAN NOT. I THINK THAT HAS TURNED THE TIDE. ODDLY, DONALD TRUMP RAILING AGAINST TRADE HAS COME IN SOME PARTS OF OUR SOCIETY, HAVE SAID, IF HE IS AGAINST IT, MAYBE IT ' S A GOOD RING. THERE IS THAT CONTRARIAN THING. THE BENEFITS OF TRADE ARE FAR AND WIDE, WHETHER IN THE PRODUCE AISLE, IN THE IPHONES WE USE. I PICKED SIX PRODUCTS TO SAY THIS IS HOW TRADE IS BENEFITING US AND MAKING A DIFFERENCE IN OUR LIVES. I THINK THE PEOPLE ARE SEEING THAT. THE CHALLENGE IS -- WE JUST HAD SHERROD BROWN ON. THE PAIN OF TRADE WAS HIGHLY CONCENTRATED IN PLACES LIKE OHIO, MICHIGAN, WISCONSIN, PENNSYLVANIA. COINCIDENTALLY, HE STATES IN THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION. THAT IS ONE REASON THIS HAS STUCK WITH US SO LONG. DAVID: YOU HAVE CERTAIN MYTHS THAT YOU ' D TRY TO UNPACK. TRADE IS A WIN-WIN. NOT NECESSARILY. FRED: THERE ARE WINNERS AND LOSERS. BUT WE DIDN ' T DO AS A COUNTRY IS ADEQUATELY UNDERSTAND, THERE WILL BE LOSERS, AND HOW CAN WE HELP THEM GET BACK ON THEIR FEET SO THEY CAN HAVE A GOOD LIFE? WE DIDN ' T DO A GOOD JOB OF THAT. DAVID: WE HAVE THIS USMCA THAT APPARENTLY WILL BE PASSED BY THE SENATE AND THE NEAR FUTURE. A GOOD THING? FRED: IT IS A GOOD THING FOR A NUMBER OF THINGS. 385 MEMBERS OF CONGRESS VOTED FOR IT. WE HAVE NEVER HAD A TRADE DEAL WITH THAT KIND OF OVERWHELMING MAJORITY. EVERYTHING PASSED BY RAZOR THIN MAJORITIES. WE HAVE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS. IT SETS A NEW FLOOR OF WHAT IS NEEDED TO HAVE A TRADE DEAL THAT WOULD BE SATISFYING TO BOTH THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, AND THE WORKERS IN AMERICA. DAVID: ONE OF THE THINGS YOU ALSO ADDRESS IS CHINA. PRESIDENT TRUMP IS NOT ALTOGETHER WRONG IN SAYING THERE IS SOME UNFAIRNESS, WHETHER ON PURPOSE OR NOT, BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM. FRED: DAVID BROOKS SAID SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT, DONALD TRUMP HAS ALL THE WRONG ANSWERS TO ALL THE RIGHT QUESTIONS. [LAUGHTER] CHINA HAS NOT BEEN A GOOD ACTOR, HAS NOT BEEN THE BEST PARTNER. WE HAD HOPED CHINA WOULD EMBRACE MORE FREE MARKETS, WOULD BE MORE OPEN IN A MORE LIBERAL SOCIETY. THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED. IT HAS RAISED A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT OF POVERTY, KEPT INFLATION AT BAY IN OUR COUNTRY. WE RELY ON THE CHINESE SUPPLY CHAIN, WHETHER IT BE THE IPHONE, PENICILLIN, OR OTHER PRODUCTS. WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO MAKE THIS WORK. THE IDEA OF DECOUPLING FROM CHINA I THINK IS A CRAZY IDEA. DAVID: WE ARE TALKING TO FRED

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U.S. Decoupling From China Is a Crazy Idea, Former Ex-Im Bank Chair Says

Fred Hochberg, former chairman of the U.S. Export–Import Bank, discusses the economic benefits of trade with Bloomberg's David Westin on "Balance of Power." (Source: Bloomberg)