00:00On this series of leaders with Blackwater goes green. We've spoken to key decision makers from sovereign wealth funds to waste management companies and even leading philanthropists to see how they're navigating the climate transition. And we finish with an entrepreneur who wants to be at the forefront of the clean energy revolution in both his home country and across the world. Sumant Sinha is a founder of one of India's largest renewable power developers and the first to list on the Nasdaq. A former banker in New York and London. Sinha returned to India and founded the company in 2011, expecting the country to experience rapid growth. He says India will become the largest contributor to global energy demand, requiring even more power than the U.S. or China. On this episode, we discuss his professional journey, the opportunities and challenges from the climate crisis, and why he thinks India will have to grow in a unique carbon light way. So thank you so much for joining us on Leaders with Black Women. You have an amazing story. You were a banker. You happily live in London and then Delhi and you think, actually, I want to be an entrepreneur and I want to be an entrepreneur or renewables. Yeah, You know, life doesn't go in straight lines, as you know, right? So everything sort of leads up to it. And eventually when you look back, it sort of all makes perfect sense. But when you're going through the motions, you're sort of just trying to optimize the next decision. So I was a banker, as you said, in New York, in London for a while. But then I wanted to go back to India because I felt that India would eventually grow, just like China had done. And so I thought that it would be a good sort of place for me to take forward the next part of my career. So I went back to India and I joined a corporate as a CFO, a large business conglomerate, and I worked there for about six years before I then decided to start on my own. And, you know, the desire to be an entrepreneur had always been there. It was just that I didn't know exactly what I should be doing. But getting into renewables and working for a renewables company actually gave me the opportunity to understand the sector. And as a finance person, it is very important for me to get sectoral understanding of something at a very early stage, and renewables and climate change in general ended up being that area. So I'm really glad that I got into it because it really opened up doors for me. Is this India's decade? I would say so. I would say so. And I think not just in not just a decade, but I think the next 20, 30 years are going to be India's, I think much like the last 20, 30 years were a period of time when China grew dramatically. I think it's going to be India's turn or the next 20, 30 years. And I think we have all the right ingredients in place right now. We've got good, stable political leadership which really wants to make India a developed country. You know, we've over the last five, ten years put a lot of building blocks in place on a macroeconomic basis. And so I think everything is primed right now to to get India to sort of really cross over to 70% consistent growth over the next 20 years. So there's been a lot of parallels actually between India and China or at least drawn into that. China chose at some point to be the manufacturer of the world. India did it. Do you see parallels between how these economies can develop? I you know, I think they're going to be largely different parts because obviously the Chinese political system is very different from India's. And I think that itself will lead to different outcomes. Hopefully India's growth is more sustainable, more long term because of of the different pressure, but as we have in our system, but also, therefore, everything takes a lot more time to work out because there are many noises that have to be that have to be addressed and dealt with. But I think as in when the the the whole sort of ship starts moving, it moves in a more sustainable manner. And I think that's hopefully what is going to happen over the next many years. As far as manufacturing is concerned, I don't think that India is going to be a great manufacturing country of the type that China has become. But I think on the other hand, we'll find our own model, you know, will be a great service. This country will be a great back office, will be great. Hopefully at some point it will become a front office as well. And obviously infrastructure development is going to be a massive opportunity in India as well. And I think the government is trying to push manufacturing. So we may not become the China manufacturing, but we'll certainly become the plus one to China in manufacturing. And so where does renewables fit into all of this? I mean, this is, you know, greening a big economy with many citizens and also finding the right infrastructure in place. Yeah, look, I think renewables is absolutely critical in India right now because and I'll give you some numbers. If you look at where India is today, we already have the third largest energy market in the world and our per capita energy consumption is among the lowest in the world. India is now growing at 7 to 8% every year, which means that there is going to be a massive increase in energy demand in India over the next several decades. In fact, we're going to be the largest contributor to global energy demand compared to any other country. But as the US or even China. Now, the question is if we grow like every other country so far as corn, which is using a fossil fuel intensive mechanism of growth, the amount of carbon emissions that will put into the atmosphere are going to be enormous, which is going to be horrible for everybody in the world, including for Indians. And therefore we have to follow a different path. And that path has not been done by has not been followed by anybody else. So we have to evolve our own unique path to grow in a carbon light way. And that fundamentally, therefore, will require a huge amount of more renewable energy capacity. And, you know, when you do the numbers and you look at energy growth and you look at how much renewables has to contribute, you you know, you realize that India has to add almost 4 to 5 times the amount of renewable capacity in the next 20 odd years, as much as the US has from all the power generating sources today. So the US, for example, has about a. Gigawatt of power generating capacity. We introduce bills have to add about 45 gigawatts in the next 20, 25, five, 45,000 gigawatts and the next 20 to 25 years. So I mean, the investment required is going to be enormous. The effort to get this done is going to be massive. But eventually that's the only path that exists for both India and for the world. But India also wants to be energy independent. And so does that mean that there will be a continuous use of coal to make up for, you know, energy when renewables are slower, but also in the transition period? Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think it's an important issue that you raised as he India's growth of energy demand is such that we cannot in the short term meet all of that through renewable, renewable energy, irrespective of how hard we are pushing growth right now. So some part of the balance will have to be made by coal for the near-term. But I think by 2035 or so, I think we reach a level of renewables addition. We won't actually need coal and we can then start replacing coal. So by 2045, by 2050, will, you know, coal would have gone down substantially and renewables will form the large part of the grid and maybe nuclear and hydro and so on. So I think give us a little bit of time and we'll get to a point where our energy system will be fundamentally driven by clean energy. And that will also, by the way, have a massive benefit for India because it'll decrease our dependence on imports of fossil fuels. Today, India pays almost $200 billion every year for imported fossil fuels, which is a big Achilles heel of India's economy. Now, all of that will get addressed, and I think the government recognizes that. And Prime Minister Modi has been pushing forward the whole issue of energy independence through renewables very substantially. So so might you start you in 2011? I imagine there are many ups and downs. First of all, was how difficult was it to convince that the future for, you know, Indian energy was green? You know, when you start a business, any business, I would imagine, you know, in the beginning phase, you're not really thinking about what's going to happen to you 50 years later. You're thinking about what might happen to you 15 days later. And so the challenges are very immediate. And so when I started, my intention was to just set up a, you know, a reasonable business and and then grow it depending on how things would evolve. So I would say for the first two, three years, we were just looking to try to prove the fact that as a company we could actually get projects executed, that we could raise capital for it and those kinds of things. It's only subsequently after we got to a certain size three or four years into our journey that I really started sort of putting my head over water and looking at the future. And and at that time, the futures started seeming a lot brighter than what I had, you know, been able to anticipate until that time. And I think then in 2014 was a bit of a turning point in India, because that's when this government came in and Prime Minister Modi came in. And I think he totally changed the entire thinking around climate change in India and went from a defensive posture to a much more, I think, open, positive view on how to deal with climate change and to totally size the targets on renewables. And that's really what has allowed us to grow substantially. Coming up, some unseen reveals what he believes is the simplest thing the world could do to combat the climate crisis. The clean energy developer Renew has been recognised for its decarbonisation efforts and sustainable portfolio across solar, wind and hydro. Company founder Suman Sinha says progress is being made on the green transition, but a host of challenges remain across governments, corporations and the mindset of consumers. He tells me about the challenges facing his industry and how people often choose a cheaper option, even if it's the wrong thing for the planet. If I get started on climate change, I think there are so many issues that we still have to deal with that are not really getting addressed the way they should and which is. So first of all, you know, the entire process is you know, is talking about commitments by various countries. And those commitments at this point don't add up to the 1.5 degrees centigrade temperature change that all of us are trying to get to. In fact, I would say that 1.5 degrees is already well behind us. We now have to try to keep the temperature change down to two degrees or two and a half degrees. But currently, all the commitments of the world, if you add them all up, take us to between two and a half and three degrees centigrade temperature change. And these are just commitments. Action is at a whole different level, which is much, much weaker or better. So it is it is it is a lot lower than what people are committing right now. I don't think any country is really on track to meet their Paris commitments, on their on their NDCs. So, in fact, therefore, you know, commitments are not adequate. Action is even less adequate than that. And so we're actually falling behind quite substantially. And then you look at the corporate sector, you know, in the corporate sector and corporates, but we account for two thirds of carbon emissions globally. Some corporates are voluntarily doing what needs to be done. But most corporates with the, you know, are not doing what needs to be done. And there isn't a proper system globally that really measures how much carbon is being put out by anybody at this point in time. Right. And you can't measure it. There's not a problem. That's exactly that's the problem. Just like just like every food product specifies on its packaging that this is the amount of calories this part of the thing has or fat or whatever else. We need to have almost the same definition of carbon that this product that is used, whether is a service or actual product consumed or produced this much carbon. Right. And then we should all be able to, as consumers, be able to start moving towards a carbon free product. Why? What I mean, it seems like we're taking, if not a step back, certainly you say we're not going to meet the targets that we've set out. Is it distraction because of other global risks or is it just not the right kind of power because we don't have the technology or the carbon capture? I think fundamentally it's human nature. You know, people don't want to do things that cost them more, even though they might be the right things to do. And corporates are not set up in a way to do the right thing. They are, you know, set up to deliver more value to their shareholders. And so if you ask them to do something that costs more but does the right thing, most people are going to choose the thing that costs them less because, you know, ultimately it's our pocket that drives our lives. And so therefore, unless we start making the use of carbon more expensive and we start making transparent what different, you know, what different products are emitting in terms of carbon, until we start doing that, I don't really think that customers are going to be aware enough and corporates are going to be aware enough to really start moving carbon usage down. And one of the most simple things that the world needs to do, I tell you, I say simple, but it's actually one of the most complex things, is that we need to have a single price of carbon globally. And if you can say that for years, I know and it's a very complex thing to do, but the reality is that there isn't really enough sufficient political backing behind it. You know, nobody really wants to do it because they all know that it's going to make everything more expensive because right now we're just all used to using carbon and just putting it into the atmosphere. The moment start that starts getting costed and everybody's cost is going to go up and in the end of inflation and political disturbance and, and when everything you know politically is so finely balanced, nobody wants to be the person who takes that call. Unfortunately, there are many, many questions actually, what the energy complex looks like for renewables. There's, you know, many question marks about wind turbines that are not really working. Hydrogen, is it the brown kind? Is it actually, you know, the blue or the green kind? How do you see the energy complex and is it really different region from region? You know, right now, I think if you look at energy as a whole, 25% of energy carbon emissions comes from electricity for electricity. We know what the solution is. We need to really just decarbonize using clean energy. The technology is there. Nuclear? No, it's mostly wind and solar. It could be nuclear. Nuclear is a little bit more expensive, but it does give you that baseload power. So we know that we need to, you know, implement wind and solar at massive scale. Now, the reason we're not able to do that is because grids have not developed as fast as they should. Local permitting issues are not as clear. Supply chains are very concentrated, so we need diversification of supply chain. So there are quite a few issues that need to be addressed in a basically decarbonising the electricity part, but that's just 25% of carbon emissions. Then on top of that, you have the rest of the energy value chain, which is really to be addressed to things like green hydrogen and green ammonia. And we. Have to find different use cases. Keep the following in mind. We have a fossil fuel based economy that has been developed over the last 200 years globally. Right? Everything in our lives is based on fossil fuels. Now we are trying to fundamentally reshape and retrain and change all of that. And that's going to require a massive, massive overhaul of all the products that we use, how we use them, you know, how our minds are wired. You know, today, a young person, a young you know, you know, 18 is going to think about getting on a motorcycle and and driving it hard or driving a driving a sports car, you know, which makes a lot of noise. You know, all of that has to change. There are cultural changes that need to happen. I guess there are so many questions about how you recycle, for example, solar panels, battery. Is that are these the wrong conversations? Because you hear that a lot by people who are not necessarily climate deniers, but just think it's the transition is too expensive and this is consumers on the street. Yeah, no, look, I think we have to to address this problem that we have to follow in all of the all of the above strategy. There's there's no there's no other way around it. We can't you know, if we just look at the amount of new minerals and metals we have to mine to make this transition happen. It's massive, right? And so if everything has to be mined from scratch, it's going to take too much effort. So therefore, recycling becomes an important part of that solution. So I think all of those are things that we absolutely need to do as well. And so we need new technologies. We need new recycling systems to be set up. You know, we need we need fast an infrastructure development on grids and so on. We need faster permitting. So there's a whole range of things that need to be addressed for this for this change to happen. Coming up, Suhasini tells me why success as an entrepreneur is a lot harder than he thought. India's Clean Power producer Renew, listed on the Nasdaq in 2021, a key milestone in the career of company founder Swansea. He tells me about his professional during the lessons he's learned by setting up a company and why the building of an organisation never stops. Was it harder being an entrepreneur than you thought it would be? It was a lot harder. And and the kind of things that you have to take responsibility for, you know, as a profession, it's a little bit different. But here the buck stops with you in every different way. Right. And especially if it is capital or if you get listed, you know, you have many, many stakeholders to manage. And so there's a lot of complexity to deal with at any given point in time. And you know that if you don't drive things forward, then perhaps they won't go as well as they might otherwise. And so therefore, that imposes a much higher degree of responsibility and burden, which over the years becomes easier to deal with, I guess. But it's always there. And, you know, as running your own company, that stress does not go away at any time. You know, you are you're sort of switched on 24 seven. And, you know, whether it's night or day or maybe on holiday or anything else really doesn't matter because, you know, you are at the beck and call of your business. Is that different because you're a founder and so you're you're always looking around, you know, you always have this image of founders as being, if not scrappy, always kind of like on the go because it's their baby. That is true. I that I think certainly is the issue. As a founder, you do have an extra sense of responsibility. And I know at some point I'm going to have to hand things over. And you want to be very careful about when you do that, how you do that and so on. But hopefully that's still some time away. But I do agree with you that as a founder, you do think that it's your baby and and therefore you do want to make sure that, you know, you look after the baby in the right way. And until the baby gets to a level where it can walk and move on its own. But, you know, as a parent, you never think that your child is or enough to do that. So I guess that happens. So what is the most valuable lesson that you've learnt as an entrepreneur? That's a great question. You know, if I think back, I would say that the most important thing that I, you know, I sort of realized is that, you know, where you get to is really an outcome of the effort that you put in. And therefore, you have to constantly keep putting in the effort. You know, the moment you take a step back, everything automatically slows down a little bit. So you have to be switched on all the time. You have to be pushing hard all the time. And you cannot actually ever relax on that front. I know you were talking about, you know, execution now being the most important thing, how that, I imagine, means building the team around you, the best team that you can find. How do you do that? Yeah, I think, look, getting the right people and keeping them engaged is one of the hardest challenges that you can face as a as a founder. And I've been fortunate that we've got a really good team with us, a team that has been with me for quite, quite a long time. And and that's made my life a little bit easier. And it's also created a sense of camaraderie, which is so important because, you know, you spend all your time with the people around you. So it's very important to have that. But I think it's it's it's something that you have to think about every single day as a as a leader of of a company, you know, And it's not just a question of the people that you have. It's a question of the kinds of systems you have to to keep them motivated and engaged, to evaluate the performance, to give them feedback about how to improve, how to prevent attrition, especially in a sector that is growing so rapidly where you are the incumbent in a sense. So everybody wants to come and take your people away from you. And so how do you prevent that from happening and yet keep the, you know, keep the ship going to all of those are very important challenges. And I think one of the very critical things is that a lot of young entrepreneurs don't realise is that when you start as an entrepreneur, you're not just building your business, which of course you are, but you also building your organisation. And most people don't realise that. And building an organisation is not just about hiring people, it's about the culture, it's about the systems, the values, the mission. You know, it's about how you operate, how you do things, how you retain people, how you keep them motivated. So it's all of those things put together and over time you realise that, you know, a lot of effort has to go into it and then eventually you have an organisation that has a life of its own. It's, you know, and it's, it's sometimes you look at it and you marvel and you think about, you know, how was this created and was I the person that was behind getting this thing done? And you're not obviously the only person because there's so many other people along with you, but it's an entity by itself. It's a it's an almost a living, breathing, dynamic organisation. What's the hardest part in actually looking at culture when you start out because you have a million things that you're thinking about, or is it when the company becomes much bigger? No, I think you have to put in culture that in the beginning I think it's very, very important because, you know, as you as as more people come in, they all come in with their different backgrounds and thought processes and you want to mould them into the kind of. Vision you have for the organization and the culture of the organization. You want things to be done in a certain way. You want a certain level of operating protocols within the organization. So all of those are things that you have to put in place right in the beginning. But, you know, the building of the organization is a constant endeavor. It never goes away. And, you know, you're always saying, well, why don't I do this earlier? You know, why did I am I doing this now? Why did I not do this five years ago? So there's always these little things that you're discovering about how to build the organization, the areas that you want to work on. And all of that is really fascinating. And, you know, it's it's a that in itself is a journey, actually. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received? Oh, good question. I think, you know, my wife gives me a lot of advice. A lot of it is very useful. I think the best advice I've just got is just to focus on what I'm doing and not to get distracted by what's happening around you. Just to keep your head down and keep just keep at it. Is that the same advice you give your children? Good question. I give them a lot of advice. I don't think that they necessarily take it all the time as young people have wanted to do. I think that, you know, my my advice to my kids is to find their own path. I think that's the most important thing. They need to find their own direction. They need to do things that excite them and motivate them. And as a parent, the tendency always ends up, you know, being that you want to direct them a little bit more than you that they want. And so the best thing you can do as a parent is to just give them the right foundations, the right sets of values, and then let them go. And to have the confidence that you have done your job, which allows them then to lead their own lives in the best possible bit. So thank you so much for joining us on Leaders. Thank you. Thank you so much.

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Leaders With Lacqua Goes Green: ReNew CEO Sumant Sinha

Sumant Sinha is the entrepreneur behind ReNew, one of India's largest renewable power developers and the first to list on the Nasdaq. Sinha, a former banker in New York and London, returned to India and founded the company in 2011, saying he expected the country to eventually experience rapid growth, much like China. He speaks to Bloomberg’s Francine Lacqua about his professional journey, the rise of India, and his goal to be at the forefront of a clean energy revolution across the globe. Leaders with Lacqua Goes Green features interviews with key decision makers across a range of industries to see how they're navigating the climate transition. (Source: Bloomberg)