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00:00The D.C. Court of Appeals, as I understand it, it posts its decisions on Tuesdays and Fridays. So we're all going to be checking the page tomorrow around 11 a.m.. What's your sense on when we might get a decision? Well, thanks for having me, Katie, and congrats on the new role. Great to join you. Yeah, great to join you from D.C.. I think what we've been guided by our attorneys is that we should expect a decision by the fall at the latest from the D.C. Circuit. But to your point, the decision could come out of the court any day. So we and our investors and a lot of folks are eagerly awaiting the decision as well, eagerly awaiting the decision. I believe Bloomberg intelligence estimates it could come by the end of September. But it's been interesting in the past couple of weeks, obviously, had BlackRock come forward with a spot Bitcoin ETF application in mid-June, I'm curious if we do see BlackRock and some of the others that have filed applications in their wake approved, Are you at all worried that this puts grayscale at the back of the SEC's line, even if you win this lawsuit? Well, I think as an organization, we've long been prepared for a world in which there are multiple spot Bitcoin ETFs on the market. If we take a step back and look at how the Bitcoin Futures ETF market has shaped up here in the US, there are multiple products and investors have choice. I do think, though, it's important to remember that Gbtc is a product that's actionable for investors today. It has a ten year track record. It's the largest Bitcoin fund in the world and an operational track record of success at that. And so you contrast that with a lot of the other filings out there, which are merely just proposals hoping to come to market. But regardless, we are prepared for a world in which there are multiple products. Let's talk about some of the differences between Gbtc and some of the proposed products. To your point that aren't on the market yet. Of course, there's the ETF structure, which as we know we want, or rather you want grayscale to have that structure as well. But if you look at BlackRock and some of the other filings, they have surveillance, sharing agreements and talking to people in the industry, as I'm sure you have as well that's been treated. It's almost a magic bullet, if you will, that maybe that's what will push these ETFs applications over the line. What's your sense on how the SEC is looking at surveillance, sharing agreements? And are you considering adding one to your application as well? I think, Katie, it'd be too early to say how the FCC would receive a surveillance sharing agreement. Surveillance sharing agreements have been something that, you know, we are grayscale has been talking about and engaged on with the FCC for multiple years. And so to see some of those term sheets come forward is certainly encouraging. And I think for a lot of investors, giving them some optimism that these are some of the newer constructs that can be addressed that really think through some of the issues that the FCC has historically had with ETFs for Bitcoin, whether it's surveillance of the underlying market, its ability to be manipulated, and perhaps how surveillance sharing can kind of help stem some of those concerns. Ultimately, I am confident that all of the exchanges hoping to list Bitcoin ETFs, the New York Stock Exchange, where we're hoping to list Gbtc as well as NASDAQ, CBOE, I believe all of these exchanges will ultimately be entering into surveillance sharing agreements over time. Quick question here. Why did you not include a surveillance sharing agreement in your application? Well, our application, as Katie was saying at the beginning of the segment, was actually denied by the FCC last year. And so the litigation that we're currently engaged in is actually challenging that SEC decision. So when we look forward to the court's decision, one of the possible outcomes from the court would be their vacating of that SCC denial, which then would put the ball back in the SEC's court. Right, But that doesn't answer why you didn't add it to begin with. Well, surveillance sharing was something that the SCC and the Greyscale team had certainly discussed over the years. It's only been, I think, recent over the last couple of months that we've seen some of those market dynamics shift where the technology and tools available, both from the exchange side as well as the crypto native side, have really been engaged in productive conversations around building out those technologies. And I want to talk a little bit about who you could enter into a surveillance sharing agreement with. Of course, we have Coinbase as your custodian on Gbtc. Is it natural to assume that they would be your partner there? Certainly Coinbase would be a party to a surveillance sharing agreement. But it's important to remember that surveillance sharing agreements are between the underlying spot markets and the listing exchange for said ETF. So in our case, it would be between the New York Stock Exchange and any of the underlying spot markets that the New York Stock Exchange entered into. And Michael, we don't have much time left, but I do want to talk a little bit about fees here, because you've said in the past that if converted into an ETF, of course, you would lower fees on BTC, which are currently around 2%. Can you put a number to what fee you're thinking of? So we will certainly be lowering the fee on Gbtc when it converts to an ETF. And we'll definitely, you know, I remain committed to that endeavor and we'll certainly communicate to the market closer to that time what the reduction in fee will be and what gbtc fee will be in an ETF format.

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Grayscale Says SEC Decision Could Come by End of Fall

Michael Sonnenshein, chief executive officer of Grayscale, talks about the fight against the Securities and Exchange Commission to convert the Grayscale Bitcoin Trust into an ETF. The SEC rejected Grayscale’s plan to convert the Bitcoin trust to an ETF last year. Sonnenshein says a decision could come by the end of the fall at the latest, but he also says a ruling could come down at any time. (Source: Bloomberg)