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00:00♪ > > PLEASE WELCOME THE DIRECTOR OF THE M.I.T. SENSIBLE CITYLAB AND CAROLINE HYDE. CARLO: THANK YOU. CAROLINE: WELL,. WELL, VERY FABULOUS TO SEE PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE, PEOPLE VIRTUALLY AS WELL, AND I AM VERY EXCITED TO SAY THAT THIS WILL BE YOUR MORNING ESPRESSO, THIS MAN HAS SO MUCH ENERGY AND I HAVE HAD SO MANY EXCITING TIMES PREPPING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HIM. HE HAS FROM M.I.T. AND SENSEABLE CITY LAB, WE WERE JUST SEEING SOME FABULOUS VIDEO OF THE WORK YOU HAVE DONE FIRST AND FOREMOST WITH WHAT CITIES ARE EVOLVING TO RIGHT HERE AND RIGHT NOW, HOW MANY SIZABLE CITIES ARE BEING FORMED EVERY YOU WEEKS NOT AS USABLE -- USUAL CITIES? CARLO: TODAY IS A BIG MOMENT FOR URBANIZATION. THERE ARE MANY STATISTICS AND LONDON, NEW PLACES FORM EVERY NEW WE TOUCH EVERY FEW WEEKS. PEOPLE MOVE TO URBAN AREAS IN THE MILLIONS EVERY FEW WEEKS, BUT FEW PEOPLE KNOW THAT MANY CITIES LOOK LIKE INFORMAL SETTLEMENTS. WE SHOWED YOU ONE OF THE LARGEST ONES IN SOUTH AMERICA. ONE OF THE KEY CHALLENGES IS HOW CAN WE WEAVE IN SOME OF THE SETTLEMENTS MORE INTO THE FORMAL FABRIC. IF YOUTH THINK ABOUT THIS ISSUE, AMAZON IS NOT ABLE TO DELIVER BECAUSE YOU DO NOT KNOW ABOUT ABOUT THE STREETS AND THE URBAN FABRIC. THE IDEA IS THAT BY MAKING IT VISIBLE AND BY UNDERSTANDING AND MAPPING AND USING THE DATA THAT YOU SAW, 300,000 POINTS EVERY SECOND, THEN WE CAN START ACTUALLY MAKING PART OF THE BROADER URBAN FABRIC. CARLO: I -- CAROLINE: I TOLD YOU WE WOULD GET ONE SHOT OF ESPRESSO DOWN. HOW HAS, FOR EXAMPLE THE WAY IN WHICH INFORMAL SETTLEMENTS OR SHANTYTOWNS WHATEVER WAY WE KNOW THEM, HOW HAS MONITORING THEM CHANGE DURING COVID IF AT ALL. HOW ARE WE SEEING IT BECOME A REALITY TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE SERVICED MORE IN THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS MORE EFFICIENT? CARLO: YOU ARE RIGHT. REMEMBER THIS TWO YEARS AGO WE WERE SAYING CITIES ARE DEAD AND EVERYBODY WAS SAYING WE WILL LIVE IN THE COUNTRYSIDE. LIKELY THAT WAS NOT THE CASE. ACTUALLY SOME OF OUR VOICES WERE THE DISSENTING VOICES SAYING THAT CITIES STARTED AROUND 10,000 YEARS AGO. WE DID NOT HAVE CITIES BEFORE AND THEN HUMANITY DISCOVERS IS BEAUTIFUL WAY TO BRING US TOGETHER SO THAT TOGETHER WE CAN BE MORE THAN EACH OF US INDIVIDUALLY AND THAT IS WHEN CITIES EMERGE IN MESOPOTAMIA AND OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD. AND THAT IS THE MAGIC OF THE CITY TO BRING US TOGETHER AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY CAN SHARE IDEAS, GOODS, PRODUCTS, CHROMOSOMES, YOU NAME IT. THAT APPLIES IN A FORMAL AND INFORMAL CITY. COVID WAS THREATENING THE URBAN ' S FABRIC -- THE URBAN FABRIC AND WE ARE SEEING THAT PHYSICAL ENCOUNTER IS VERY IMPORTANT. IT IS IMPORTANT TODAY AND IT IS IMPORTANT IN CITIES AND IN THE OFFICE AS. THAT IS HOW WE BUILT THE SOCIAL FABRIC THAT IS REQUIRED TO LIFT -- TO LIVE. CAROLINE: AS A SOCIAL PERSON I FEEL THAT. MY SISTER IS SOMEONE WHO THRIVES BEING A LITTLE MORE ANTISOCIAL AND SHE ENJOYED WORK FROM HOME. WHAT IS THE DATA THAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT THAT MEANS WE ARE FAR BETTER THAT WE ARE NOT CONNECTING JUST VIRTUALLY BUT HERE IN THE FLESH TILTING NETWORKS AND HAVING CONVERSATIONS BECAUSE I KNOW YOU HAVE A PAPER LEADING TO THIS. CARLO: IT IS A PIECE OF RESEARCH THAT WE ARE DOING WITH M.I.T. AND WE COLLABORATED WITH OTHER RESEARCHERS. WE AS HUMANS ARE SIMILAR TO WHAT MONKEYS DO. WE CONNECT TO A CERTAIN NUMBER OF FRIENDS AND THAT IS THE CERTAIN NUMBER OF STABLE INTERACTIONS WE CAN FORM. WE WERE LOOKING AT THE M.I.T. CAMPUS WITH WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE COVID AND DURING COVID AND HOW THINGS CHANGED AGAIN ONCE WE WENT BACK TO PHYSICAL SPACE, AND YOU KNOW WHAT YOU FIND IS IMPORTANT. PHYSICAL SPACE IS LIKE POLARIZATION AND IT ALLOWS US TO CREATE WHAT SOCIALIZED JUST CALL -- SOCIAL LODGES -- IT IS PHYSICAL SPACE, SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPENS AND THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN IN DIGITAL SPACE WHERE WE TEND TO DECIDE AND -- DIVIDE AND SEGREGATE. THIS IS IMPORTANT WITH THE MATTER OF EVERY ONE OF US. CAROLINE: AFTER THIS CONVERSATION WE NEED TO THINK IN THE WAY THAT CITIES ARE BUILT AND EQUITABLE PERSPECTIVE. BUT YOUR TRAINING AND ALL OF YOUR LEARNING AND EXPERTISE IS AS AN ENGINEER AND ARCHITECT. HOW ARE WE GOING TO FORM CITIES DIFFERENTLY SO THAT THE NETWORKING IS ONLY POSITIVE FOR US? CARLO: YOU KNOW, ARCHITECTS AND ENGINEERS CAN PLAY A BIG ROLE AND IN TERMS OF THE OVERALL SUSTAINABILITY OF CITIES. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SOCIAL SUSTAINABILITY ALSO IN GENERAL. REMEMBER TWO NUMBERS ABOUT CITIES. CITIES ARE ONLY 2% OF THE SURFACE OF THE PLANET BUT ARE 55% OF THE POPULATION. 75% OF ENERGY CONSUMPTION AND 80% OF CO2 COMMISSIONS. AS DESIGNERS, ARCHITECTS AND PLANNERS WE HAVE A BIG DEAL OF RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE CITIES SUSTAINABLE URBAN ENVIRONMENTAL AND SOCIAL POINT OF VIEW. BACK TO YOUR POINT WHAT CAN WE DO FROM A SOCIAL POINT OF VIEW, IT IS ABOUT BRIDGING THE INVISIBLE FAULTLINES THAT WE CAN DETECT, HOW CAN WE DO IT? BIG DATA UNDERSTANDS BETTER HOW TO UNDERSTAND THE GHETTOS, THE LIMINAL GHETTOS. GHETTOS IN THE PAST ARE VISIBLE AND TODAY THEY ARE MORE AND SAID U.S. BECAUSE YOU DO NOT -- INSIDUEOUS BECAUSE YOU DO NOT SEE THEM. WHEN WE KNOW THAT WE CAN DESIGN THINGS IN ORDER TO BRIDGE SCHOOLS, PARKS, PUBLIC SPACES, YOU NAME IT, ALL OF THOSE CAN HELP US MAKE SURE THAT THE CITY PERFORMS AS IT SHOULD AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT BRINGS US CLOSER. CAROLINE: YOU SAY THIS AT A TIME WHERE MANY OF US FEEL POLITICALLY SPANKING THAT CITIES IN CERTAIN COUNTRIES HAVE NEVER BEEN MORE DIVIDED. CAN CITIES BE AN ANTIDOTE TO THAT? CARLO: I REALLY HOPE SO. I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE SITUATION WHERE YOU ARE LIVING IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES. I MYSELF SPENT A GOOD TIME IN THE UNITED STATES AND YOU SEE IT IS POLARIZATION THAT MANY PEOPLE HAVE LINKED TO SOCIAL MEDIA. WE GET PASSIONATE ABOUT -- PASSIONATE ABOUT THAT AND THEN WE DIVIDE AND SEPARATE AND AT ONE POINT WE DO NOT HAVE ANY MORE, IN FACT OR THINGS THAT CLUE US TOGETHER. I THINK PHYSICAL SPACE IS AN ANTIDOTE AND IT HAS AN IMPORTANT PART. IT IS SO EASY ON DIGITAL POINT -- IN THE DIGITAL SPACE YOU UNFRIEND SOMEBODY. I DO NOT LISTEN TO WHAT YOU POST ANYMORE. THERE IS SOMETHING IN PHYSICAL SPACE WHICH IS AN AFFABILITY. IN PHYSICAL SPACE YOU HAVE TO CONFRONTED AND NEGOTIATE WITH OTHER PEOPLE AND PEOPLE WHO MAY CHALLENGE THE PRECONCEPTION. I MEAN, I DO NOT -- LIKE I SAID I DO NOT HAVE MANY PEOPLE IN MY DIGITAL NETWORK THAT IS SUPPORTED OF DONALD TRUMP. EVEN IF I GO TO -- I GOING TO THE STREETS THAN AMY ANY SUPPORTERS SO PHYSICAL SPACE CAN BE AN ANTIDOTE BEFORE -- TO THIS POLARIZATION BECAUSE IT FORCES US TO CHALLENGE PRECONCEPTIONS AND THINK AND CONFRONTS DIVERSITY. CAROLINE: HOWEVER, WE COME OUT OF THIS TWO YEAR EXPERIMENT THAT WE WERE ALL FORCED INTO, VIRTUAL LIVING, MORE SO IN DEVELOPED NATIONS AND DEVELOPING, BUT ALSO IN WHITE COLLAR TO USE FOR WANT OF A BETTER PHRASE JOBS RATHER THAN BLUE-COLLAR BUT THERE SEEMS TO BE CERTAIN COMPANIES, FACEBOOK IS THINKING VERY MUCH ABOUT HOW WE CAN HAVE AN AUGMENTED REALITY, MAYBE NOT FULLY VIRTUAL, DO YOU THINK THAT WILL LIVE ON? HOW DO YOU SEE THE BALANCE OF US COMING INTO THE CITY THREE DAYS A WEEK AND THEN HAVING MORE USEFUL EXPERIENCES IN THE ZOOM ROOMS OR VIRTUAL MEETINGS THERE MIGHT BE IN AN AUGMENTED OR VIRTUAL REALITY. > > FOR SURE WE WANT TO BE FLEXIBLE SO SOME FLEXIBILITY WE WILL ENJOY, MAYBE WORKING ONE OR TWO DAYS A WEEK PER HOME AND COMMUTING LAST TO BE MORE PRODUCTIVE AND SPENDING MORE TIME IN THE COUNTRYSIDE WITH THE FAMILY. AT THE SAME TIME I AM CONCERNED ABOUT META AND REMEMBER THE EXPERIMENT SECOND NIGHT -- SECOND LIFE, SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM SECOND -- FROM THE REAL WORLD AND THEN IT DISAPPEARED. CAROLINE: DID ANYONE YOU SECOND LIFE, BUILDING BUYING? ONE PERSON AT LEAST. WELL DONE, AHEAD OF YOUR TIME. CARLO: IT WAS LIKE 10 YEARS AGO AND WHAT HAS CHANGED, WE GOT MORE BANDWIDTH. WE GOT A DIFFERENT TYPE OF VISUAL SYSTEM BUT IT SEEMS THE SAME PROBLEM. WE LIVE IN A PHYSICAL SPACE. THE COFFEE DOES NOT WORK ON META BUT IT WORKS HERE AND THAT IS WHAT WE ARE MANAGING, HUMAN INTERACTION HAPPENS. CARLO: IT FEELS LIKE YOU ARE OPTIMISTIC ABOUT CITIES. ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC ABOUT MORE TEMPORARY OR INFORMAL SETTLEMENTS AS WELL AND HOW THEY DEVELOP AND HOW WE SERVE THEM, BECAUSE WE ARE AT A TIME OF NOT JUST POLARIZATION BUT GROWING INEQUALITY. CARLO: MAYBE THE BEST WAY TO ANSWER IS WITH THE WORDS " OPTIMISM IS A DUTY, " BECAUSE OF FUTURE IS NOT SENTENCE DOWN OR SOMETHING TO PREDICT. IT WILL COME OUT OF WHAT WE DECIDE SO ACTIVE -- ACTUALLY IF YOU WANT TO IMPROVE CITIES IS SOMEBODY FROM THIS ROOM AND COMING UP WITH SOME IDEA THAT MIGHT CHANGE WHATEVER. THAT IS THE WAY TO GET TO A BETTER FUTURE AND THAT IS WHY IT IS A DUTY TO BE OPTIMISTIC. CAROLINE: WHERE DO YOU THINK THE BALANCE WILL BE IN TERMS OF THE WAY THAT WE LIVE. DO YOU SEE A THREE TO FIVE DAY? OR IS THAT JUST FOR THE LUCKY? CARLO: I AM SEEING DIFFERENT THINGS, BUT YOU LIVE IN NEW YORK AND I WILL BE SPENDING QUITE A BIT OF TIME IN NEW YORK AND LONDON. CARLO: -- CAROLINE: YOU ARE AN INTERNATIONAL MAN OF MYSTERY. CARLO: THAT WAS BEFORE COVID, NOT ANYMORE. IF YOU LOOK AT GLOBAL CITIES WHAT IT WOULD BE CALLED GLOBAL CITIES IS THAT PEOPLE SPENT TWO DAYS A WEEK WORKING FROM HOME, BUT THE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT WHEN WE COME TOGETHER AND WE COME TOGETHER AT AN EVENT LIKE THIS ONE AND IN THE OFFICE AND WE HAVE COFFEE TOGETHER. WHEN WE MAKE THIS PHYSICAL SPACE THE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT WE NEED TO BUILD THOSE NEW LINKS THAT ACTUALLY SUSTAIN OUR SOCIAL NETWORKS. CAROLINE: ONE CALLED THE AUDIENCE, ONE THING TO SEE THAT THIS OPTIMISM IS COMING TOGETHER, THE SHARING OF CAFFEINATED BEVERAGES BECOMES A REALITY? CARLO: MAYBE, HAVE MORE COFFEE. COFFEE ACTUALLY HAS BEEN PROVEN, AS YOU KNOW, PROMOTING SOME OF THE DYNAMICS THAT WE ARE SAYING SO WE THINK THAT IS A GOOD WAY TO END. CAROLINE: YOU MIGHT BE AN INTERNATIONAL MAN OF MYSTERY BUT YOU STILL HAVE YOUR ROOTS. WE THANK YOU SO MUCH AND IT IS ABSOLUTELY FASCINATING. AND THE CITYLAB, WE THANK YOU. CARLO: THANK YOU ALL OF YOU. [APPLAUSE]

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In Conversation with Carlo Ratti, Director, MIT SENSEable City Lab

In Conversation with Carlo Ratti, Director, MIT SENSEable City Lab with Caroline Hyde, Anchor, Bloomberg Television at the Bloomberg New Economy Gateway Latin America. (Source: Bloomberg)

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