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00:00INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS -- JANE HARMAN, THE DIRECTOR, PRESIDENT, AND CEO OF THE WILSON CENTER. SHE SERVED IN CONGRESS AND WAS A RANKING MEMBER OF THE HOUSE HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE ' S INTELLIGENCE SUBCOMMITTEE. JANE: NINE TERMS IN CONGRESS, 17 YEARS. DAVID: WOW, I BEG YOUR PARDON. START WITH NORTH KOREA, START AT LEAST WITH NORTH KOREA. WHAT IS REALISTIC TO EXPECT OUT OF THIS SUMMIT? JANE: UM, WELL, NO MORE MISSILE TESTING, AT LEASE FOR NOW. SOME ASPIRATIONS FOR DENUCLEARIZATION, WHICH IS A GOOD THING, AND MAYBE ASPIRATIONS ABOUT SOME U.S. CONCESSIONS WE MIGHT MAKE HAVING TO DO WITH THE TRAINING EXERCISES, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, HOPEFULLY NOT THE REDUCTION OF TROOPS IN SOUTH KOREA. BUT THINGS OF THAT KIND. I DOUBT THERE WILL BE IN A THING TO THE IRAN AGREEMENT. WIH WHICH OBAMA WAS ABLE TO STRIKE, WHICH DONALD TRUMP SAID WAS AN ADEQUATE, BUT THAT WAS A CONTAINMENT REGIME ON THE GROUND MAKING SURE IRAN LIVED UP TO IT. DAVID: THIS IS THE SECOND SUMMIT BETWEEN PRESIDENT TRUMP AND KIM JONG-UN. OUT OF THE FIRST, I THINK THERE WAS GENERAL LANGUAGE, BUT IT FELT MORE LIKE ATMOSPHERICS THAN SPECIFICS. CAN WE EXPECT SPECIFICS HERE? WHAT DO WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD? JANE: MOST PEOPLE THINK THAT WAS A PHOTO OP. BUT THE GOOD NEWS IS DONALD TRUMP IS PAYING ATTENTION. AND TWO, THERE IS NO TESTING, ACTIVE TESTING RIGHT NOW, BUT ALL OF OUR INTELLIGENCE FOLKS THINK THAT NORTH KOREA STILL IS DEVELOPING NUCLEAR -- ITS NUCLEAR PROGRAM, WHICH IS WAY MORE DEVELOPED THAN IRAN ' S WAS. SO THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE SPECIFICS. SOME SPECULATE MAYBE NORTH KOREA WILL -- THEIR MOST VISIBLE FACILITY, BUT THAT IS NOT DENUCLEARIZATION. AND CHINA IS WORKING WITH NORTH KOREA ON THIS. CHINA WANTS CONTAINMENT, IT DOES NOT WANT DENUCLEARIZATION AND NORTH KOREA AS PART OF SOUTH KOREA. AND WE ARE DEALING WITH CHINA ON A TRADE AGREEMENT, SO THERE IS LINKAGE. DAVID: WE HAVE BEEN WATCHING AIR FORCE ONE TAKING OFF IN WASHINGTON AS HE HEADS TO HANOI. PERHAPS PRESIDENT OBAMA DID NOT PAY ENOUGH ATTENTION, BUT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS BEEN ASSERTIVE ON THIS AND HAS TWEETED, " SO FUNNY TO WATCH PEOPLE WHO HAVE FAILED TO LAY ME HOW TO NEGOTIATE, BUT THANKS ANYWAY. " DOES HE HAVE A POINT? JANE: TO BE FAIR, OBAMA WAS PAYING MORE ATTENTION TO IRAN AND HE STRUCK A DEAL. IT WAS NOT A PERFECT DEAL, BUT I THINK THE BETTER MOVE FORWARD WAS TO MAKE IT A BETTER DEAL, AND I THINK HE WOULD ' VE HAD SUPPORT FROM EUROPE, WHERE NOW HE HAS NO SUPPORT WHEN VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE IS ASCII EUROPE TO WITHDRAW SUPPORT FOR THE DEAL. THAT DENIES US ACCESS TO CHINA AND RUSSIA, WHO ARE ALSO PARTICIPANTS WERE PARTIES TO THE IRAN DEAL. DAVID: CHINA FOR MANY YEARS, WE BELIEVED IT WAS THE PATHWAY TO GETTING TO NORTH KOREA, THAT THEY COULD ASSERT PRESSURE THAT WE COULD INDIRECTLY. WHAT IS THE ROLE THEY ARE PLAYING AND HOW DOES OUR DISPUTE OVER TRADE FACTOR INTO THAT, IS IT HELPING OR HURTING? JANE: THE SCHOLARS AT THE WILSON CENTER THINK THAT CHINA AND NORTH KOREA ARE NOT ESPECIALLY CLOSE, IF YOU STUDY THE HISTORY, BUT THEY ARE NEIGHBORS AND THEY SHARE A LONG BORDER, AND NORTH KOREAN DEFECTORS HAVE BEEN GOING INTO CHINA. BY THE WAY, CHINA HAS BEEN TRADING WITH NORTH KOREA WHILE SAYING IT IS INVITING -- ABIDING BY SECTIONS. THEY ARE WORKING TO STRIKE A DEAL GOOD FOR CHINA. THAT FACTORS INTO TRADE NEGOTIATIONS THAT ARE ONGOING, THAT IS A GOOD THING. THE MARKETS WILL STAY STRONG OR GO UP, GOOD FOR DONALD TRUMP IF HE STRIKES A DEAL. WHAT NEEDS TO BE IN THE DEAL? THERE NEEDS TO BE LANGUAGE ABOUT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. OUR COMPANIES CANNOT BE REQUIRED TO GIVE UP THEIR IP TO DO BUSINESS WITH CHINA. AND ALSO, IT IS UNREASONABLE TO THINK THAT CHINA CAN CONTINUE THIS, TO STEAL FROM US THE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY SECRETS, SO IF THAT CHANGES THAT COULD BE THE BASIS FOR A DEAL THAT OBAMA DID NOT STRIKE. THAT IS " I WIN " FOR DONALD TRUMP AND WILL KEEP THE MARKETS HIGH. DAVID: WHETHER IT IS NORTH KOREA OR CHINA TRADE, MANY PEOPLE THINK IT WILL TAKE TIME. TALK ABOUT THIS, DOES IT FEEL LIKE -- TA LK ABOUT ONE THING THAT CANNOT WAIT AS LONG, VENEZUELA. THEY HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET FOOD TO THE POOR PEOPLE OF VENEZUELA. MIKE PENCE IS ON HIS WAY RIGHT NOW. HOW IS THIS GOING TO BE RESOLVED, WHAT IS THE RIGHT PATH FORWARD FOR THE UNITED STATES? JANE: WELL, MOST PEOPLE THINK AND I WOULD AGREE THAT THE NICOLAS MADURO GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN DREADFUL FOR THE COUNTRY, THAT DOES NOT MEAN THERE SHOULD BE A U.S. INVASION OR GROUND INVASION TOMORROW. I DO NOT THINK OUR ALLIES, THE LIMA GROUP, THE SOUTH AMERICAN NATIONS EXCEPT FOR MEXICO, SUPPORT A NEW LEADER, OR THE EU WOULD CONTRIBUTE TO A GROUND FORCE. SO WE BETTER THINK LONG AND HARD BEFORE WE THREATEN THAT. IT WOULD BE GREAT IF SOMEHOW, THROUGH MAGIC AND SUSTAINED DIPLOMACY, WE STRIKE A DEAL, WHICH WOULD OPEN UP THE BORDERS FIRST TO FEED THE STARVING FOLKS. AND THEN WORK OUT A POLITICAL TRANSITION. THAT WOULD BE IDEAL. BORDERS HAVE BEEN CLOSED IN YEMEN, FROM TIME TO TIME IN SYRIA, AND THE BORDERS HAVE BEEN WEAPONIZE AGAINST HUMANITARIAN AID. I WISH THE U.S. WOULD SPEAK OUT ON THOSE THINGS. DAVID: GIVE US HOPE, BECAUSE IT WAS NOT LONG AGO THAT EVERYBODY THOUGHT ASSAD WAS ON HIS WAY OUT, THAT HE WOULD BE GONE, IT DOES NOT LOOK THAT WAY NOW. HOW CAN WE MAKE SURE THAT VENEZUELA DOES NOT TURN INTO A VERSION OF SYRIA, GOING ON AND ON? JANE: SYRIA HAS TRIBALISM IN A WAY THAT VENEZUELA DOESN ' T, IT DOESN ' T HAVE THE KURDS, BUT IT DOES HAVE THE OVERLAY OF GEOPOLITICS. RUSSIA AND CHINA DO NOT WANT THE NICOLAS MADURO GOVERNMENT TO FALL. IT HAS THAT OVERLAY. IT ALSO SEEMS TO ME THAT IF WE CAN GET THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD WITH US, IT IS A SIMPLER PROBLEM TO SOLVE AND IN THE WAY TO SOLVE IT IS TRANSITIONING TO A MORE PLURALISTIC LEADERSHIP. DAVID: IS THE ADMINISTRATION HANDLING THIS THE RIGHT WAY? JANE: MIKE POMPEO AND THE VICE PRESIDENT ARE FOCUSED ON AND MIKE PENCE IS GOING DOWN THERE NOW. MIKE POMPEO IS PAYING ATTENTION. AND SO IS THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THERE IS A HUGE REFUGEE PROBLEM AND A HUMANITARIAN REFUGEE PROBLEM. SO BASICALLY, YES. DOES THAT MEAN IT WILL GET SOLVED? NOT NECESSARILY. AND IT IS NOT HELPFUL TO HAVE MEXICO AND OTHERS IN LATIN AMERICA OFFENDED BY THE WAYS WE ARE TREATING MIGRANTS, WHO ARE COMING UP TO THE U.S. BORDER. DAVID: YOU HAVE A VERY SPECIAL PERCH AT THE WILSON CENTER, YOU GET TO LOOK AT THE WORLD. DO SOME WORK FOR US, AS YOU LOOK AROUND, WHAT IS THE ONE THING THAT BOTHERS YOU THE MOST? JANE: YOU KNOW, IT IS A TROUBLED WORLD. IT BOTHERS ME THAT GOVERNMENTS ARE LOSING A LOT OF THEIR PLURALISTIC AND HUMANITARIAN AND HOPEFUL ASPECTS AROUND THE WORLD, NOT JUST ONE GOVERNMENT. THAT WORRIES ME. IT WORRIES ME THE U.S. IS RETREATING. OUR LEADERSHIP MATTERS. NOT OUR MILITARY LEADERSHIP, I MEAN OUTR SHINING CITY ON THE HILL, AS RONALD REAGAN CALLED IT, THAT LEADERSHIP, SETTING AN EXAMPLE FOR THE WORLD. AND HELPING TO BUILD ALLIANCES, NOT DESTROY THEM, OF LIKE-MINDED FOLKS WHO. QUOTE FURTHER PEOPLE WHEN THAT GOES, I THINK THE WORLD WILL BE A DREARY PLACE, AND I DO NOT WANT TO THAT FOR MY GRANDCHILDREN. DAVID: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US. JANE HARMAN, THE DIRECTOR, PRESIDENT, AND CEO OF THE WILSON CENTER.

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