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00:00THIS IS "BALANCE OF POWER." I'M DAVID WESTIN. FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE MADELEINE ALBRIGHT HAS A SPENT A LIFETIME ADDRESSING THE PROBLEMS OF TOTALITARIAN REGIMES, FROM FLEEING THE NAZIS WHEN SHE WAS ONLY TWO YEARS OLD, TO NEGOTIATING WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN, KIM JONG-IL AND CHAVEZ. NOW SHE HAS WRITTEN A BOOK ON THE SUBJECT, "FASCISM: A WARNING" ," WHICH IS OUT IN PAPER RBACK. WELCOME. TALK ABOUT THE PEOPLE YOU PROFILE IN THIS BOOK, TAKING US INTO THE 21ST CENTURY. START WITH HUGO CHAVEZ. YOU SPEND SOME TIME ON THAT, IN VENEZUELA IS VERY MUCH ON OUR MINDS GIVING WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE WAKE OF HUGO CHAVEZ. WHAT DID YOU FIND IN YOUR EXPERIENCE? SEC. ALBRIGHT: I WENT TO THE COUNTRY, AND THE PLACE WAS RUN BY TIRED OLD MEN WHO DID NOT HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH LARGE PORTIONS OF THE POPULATION, ESPECIALLY THE INDIGENOUS. SO I CAN SEE HOW HUGO CHAVEZ BECAME VERY APPEALING. HE CAME TO THE U.S. AND MET WITH PRESIDENT CLINTON AND MYSELF, HE WAS VERY APPEALING IT IS SAID HE WOULD USE THE MONEY FROM OIL TO CREATE A POOR PEOPLES FUND. AND HE GETS INTO OFFICE AND HE TOTALLY CHANGES, AND HE BECOMES VERY AUTHORITARIAN, HE PIT PEOPLE AGAINST EACH OTHER, AND IN FACT HE USED THAT DIVISION TO HIS OWN ADVANTAGE TO GET KIND OF A TRIBAL GROUP THAT HE APPEALED TO AGAINST OTHERS. AND HE BECAME VERY AUTHORITARIAN. BUT, THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART, ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I WRITE ABOUT, EXCEPT FOR THE COMMUNISTS IN RUSSIA AND CHINA WHO ACTUALLY DID HAVE A REVOLUTION, EVERYBODY ELSE WAS ELECTED. AND BASED ON THE FACT THAT THERE WERE DIVISIONS IN SOCIETY AND THOSE LEADERS EXACERBATED IN THOSE DIVISIONS. DAVID: AS A GO THROUGH THE LIST, FROM MUSSOLINI TO HITLER, KIM JONG-IL, DO THEY ALL START OUT BELIEVING WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS BEST FOR THE COUNTRY, OR IS IT ABOUT THEMSELVES FROM THE OUTSET? SEC. ALBRIGHT: I THINK IT IS A COMBINATION. I DO THINK THAT THEY BELIEVED THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THEIR COUNTRY, BUT THEY ALSO BELIEVE IN THEIR OWN POWERS OF PERSUASION AND BELIEVE THEY ARE THE ONES THAT HAVE THE ANSWERS TO DEALING WITH IT. I DO NOT THINK IT IS JUST SELF IN GRAND EYES MET, -- SELF GRANDIOSE O BUT REALLY BUILDING ON THE PROBLEM THEMSELVES. DAVID: WHAT ABOUT FORCING NICOLAS MADURO OUT AND GOING WITH JUAN GUAIDO? SEC. ALBRIGHT: I THINK IT IS TRUE THAT NICOLAS MADURO REALLY CHEATED IN TERMS OF BUILDING ANOTHER TERM ON THE BASIS OF A FALSE ELECTION. AND ACCORDING TO THE VENEZUELAN CONSTITUTION, THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DOES HAVE THE POWER TO DO SOMETHING. WHAT I FIND INTERESTING IS WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP AND THE ADMINISTRATION ARE DOING IS WITHIN, TO A GREAT EXTENT, THE CONTEXT OF THE REGION. THERE IS THE LIMA GROUP, THE LATIN AMERICANS, THEN ADDING THE CANADIANS AND EUROPEANS, WHO DO BELIEVE THAT IT IS WORTH LOOKING AT THIS. BUT WHEN THEY BEGIN TO TALK ABOUT USING MILITARY FORCE, I PART COMPANY. I THINK THAT WOULD BE A MISTAKE. DAVID: TALK ABOUT PUTIN AND OTHER INDIVIDUALS IN THE BOOK, AND YOUR PERSONAL DEALINGS WITH PRESIDENT PUTIN. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF HIM? SEC. ALBRIGHT: HE IS A KGB OFFICER, VERY SMART, AND HE IS TRYING TO RESURRECT A LARGER RUSSIA, BASED ON -- I WAS PART OF SETTING UP A FOCUS GROUP IN RUSSIA IN 1991 AND I WILL NEVER FORGET THE MAN WHO STOOD UP AND SAID, I AM SO EMBARRASSED, WE USED TO BE A SUPERPOWER AND NOW WE ARE BANGLADESH WITH MISSILES. WHAT VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS DONE IS SHOWN THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE THEY CAN BE GREAT AGAIN, BUT HE HAS A VERY WEAK ECONOMY. SO I THINK TRULY THAT, AS A RESULT OF HIS BACKGROUND HE IS PLAYING A WEAK HAND VERY WELL AND PRESIDENT TRUMP, WE HAVE A STRONG HAND THAT HE IS PLAYING IT VERY POORLY. DAVID: I WONDER ABOUT THE THINGS THAT ARE HELPING HIM. WE JUST HAD TO ESTIMATES FROM INTELLIGENCE CHIEFS -- WE JUST HAD BRIEFINGS FROM INTELLIGENCE CHIEFS ON CAPITOL HILL. THIS IS PART OF WHAT THEY HAD TO SAY. >> THE KREMLIN HAS ALIGNED RUSSIA WITH A REPRESSIVE REGIME IN CUBA, IRAN, NORTH KOREA, SYRIA AND VENEZUELA. AND MOSCOW'S RELATIONSHIP WITH BEIJING IS CLOSER THAN IT HAS BEEN IN MANY DECADES. DAVID: THAT WAS DAN COATS. DO YOU SHARE HIS CONCERNS? SEC. ALBRIGHT: I DO. I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CHANGED THINGS WAS WHEN THERE WAS A SPLIT BETWEEN THE RUSSIANS AND THE CHINESE. I THINK THAT NOW FOR THEM TO DEVELOP AN ALLIANCE -- THERE ARE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT THREATS IN WHICH A BOTH OF THE RUSSIANS AND CHINESE ARE PUSHING POLICIES THAT ARE CONTRARY TO WHAT I THINK THE U.S. SHOULD HAVE. SO, I AM VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE PRESIDENT KIND OF DISMISSED WHAT THIS TEAM OF INTELLIGENCE EXPERTS RAISED. AND KIND OF SAD, THEY DIDN'T -- SAID, THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT. THAT IS NICHOLAS. DAVID: ONE OF THE THINGS HE TWITTED WAS THEY WERE NAIVE IN RESPECT TO IRAN. IF HE REALLY BELIEVES THAT THEY ARE NAIVE, HOW CAN HE CAME -- HE KEEP THEM IN THE JOB? SEC. ALBRIGHT: THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT HE PUT INTO THE JOB. I RESPECT THE PEOPLE THAT PRECEDED THIS GROUP, THE PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS REALLY PUT THEM DOWN AND HE NAMED HIS OWN PEOPLE, AND NOW DOING THE SAME THING TO THEM. I DO NOT KNOW WHERE HE THINKS HE IS GETTING HIS INFORMATION. THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY IS NOT JUST PEOPLE AT THE TOP THAT , THEY ARE A REMARKABLE GROUP OF PEOPLE. THE THING THAT PEOPLE FORGET IS CORNERS LISTEN TO THIS -- FORGET IS FOREIGNERS LISTEN TO THIS. WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY THINK ABOUT OUR NATIONAL SECURED A POLICY, IT MUST GIVE GREAT COMFORT TO OUR ADVERSARIES AND SCARE OUR ALLIES. DAVID: FINALLY, IT STRIKES ME AS I READ THIS BOOK, NONE OF THESE PEOPLE, THEY ARE ALL MEN BY THE WAY, NONE OF THESE MEN COULD HAVE COME TO POWER IF THERE WAS NOT SOME FUNDAMENTAL DISAFFECTION WITHIN THEIR OWN COUNTRY. THERE WAS SOME ANGER, AND THAT IS CERTAINLY TRUE IN VENEZUELA. PRESIDENT TRUMP, I DO NOT THINK HE WOULD BE PUT IN THE SAME CATEGORY AS MS. ILLINI, THAT WOULD BE -- AS MUSSOLINI, THAT WOULD BE RIDICULOUS. BUT WHAT HAS CAUSED US TO ELECT PRESIDENT TRUMP? WHAT CAME IN THE AFTERMATH OF PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH AND PRESIDENT OBAMA THAT LED THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO SAY, YES, WE WANT THIS MAN TO LEAD US? SEC. ALBRIGHT: ALL OF THEM KIND OF CAME TO POWER AS A RESULT OF PROBLEMS OR ISSUES. I WAS GOING TO WRITE THIS BOOK NO MATTER WHAT, BECAUSE I DO THINK WE HAVE NOT ANALYZED WHETHER TWITTER FOR CENTURY IS ABOUT. WE ARE OPERATING TOO MUCH WITH A FEAR FACTOR AND NOT ENOUGH OF AN ANALYSIS IN TERMS OF THE ECONOMY, WHAT TECHNOLOGY DID, THE LOSS OF JOBS, AND I THINK THERE WAS THIS QUIET. -- DISQU IET. AND I THINK WE NEED A LEADER THAT BRINGS US TOGETHER. DAVID: IN ECONOMICS, HOW MUCH OF THIS WAS A RESULT OF 2008, WHEN WE PUMPED SO MUCH MONEY IN THE SYSTEM AND A LOT OF IT STAYED IN THE WEALTHIER PARTS OF THE SYSTEM AND WE EXACERBATED THE PROBLEM, THIS DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE RICH AND THE POOR? SEC. ALBRIGHT: IT WAS ABSOLUTELY A PROBLEM, THE INCREASING DIVISION BETWEEN THE RICH AND POOR, AND THE FACT THAT THE POOR NOW KNOW HOW MUCH OF THE RICH HAVE. PLUS, THE NEW TECHNOLOGY. WE HAVE NOT GRAPPLED WITH THAT YET AND WE REALLY NEED TO. WE NEED A COMBINATION OF LEADERS IN THE GOVERNMENT, WE NEED OUTSIDERS, AND THE PRESS. YOU ARE NOT THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE, YOU ARE THE ONES BRINGING US THE FACTS. DAVID: WE CAN ALWAYS DO A BETTER

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Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright on Venezuela, Russia and Trump

Former U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, co-chair of the Albright-Stonebridge Group, discusses the political crisis in Venezuela, the state of U.S.-Russia relations and the threats to national security with Bloomberg's David Westin on "Bloomberg Markets: Balance of Power." (Source: Bloomberg)

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