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00:00DAVID: YOU ARE WATCHING BALANCE OF POWER. I AM DAVID WESTIN. I SAT DOWN WITH GOVERNOR JOHN HICKENLOOPER NEARING HIS LAST TERM, AND I STARTED BY ASKING WHERE HE DIFFERED OR AGREED WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP. TO WHAT EXTENT ARE YOU ALIGNED WITH A LOT OF ISSUES OF DONALD TRUMP? HE IS REPUBLICAN, YOU ARE DEMOCRAT, BUT YOU CAN STILL AGREE ON SOME THINGS. GOV. HICKENLOOPER: I DON ' T THINK THE GOVERNMENT IS DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN. I ARGUED THAT IT IS A MCCLATCHY BELIEVE IN GOOD GOVERNMENT AND THAT MEANS YOU GET RID OF THE RED TAPE. YOU NEED RESPONSIBLE REGULATIONS BUT THEY HAVE TO BE REGULATIONS PEOPLE HAVE WORKED TO TOGETHER SO EVERYBODY IS INVESTED IN THE REGULATIONS. I THINK WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP ' S ADMINISTRATION, OR WHAT WE SEE IN COLORADO, IS THEY ARE THROWING OUT THE BABY WITH THE BATHWATER. THEY ARE GETTING RID OF ALL THE GOOD REGULATIONS AND SAYING, WE WILL HAVE NO REGULATORY FRAMEWORK. HISTORY HAS TOLD US, THE FREE ENTERPRISE SYSTEM IS THE BEST THERE IS, BUT IT NE EDS A REGULATORY FRAMEWORK. YOU CANNOT HAVE MONOPOLIES OR LET BUSINESSES POLLUTE WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES. WE LEARNED IT THE HARD WAY. DAVID: AS WE LOOK AT THE GROWTH INITIATIVE ON A NATIONAL LEVEL, THERE SEEM TO BE A COUPLE OF TRADE-OFFS. I WONDER WHAT YOUR EXPERIENCE IN DENVER IS IN THIS? WE HAVE SEEN THAT TO PROMOTE GROWTH AND THE OTHER IS -- DEBT TO PROMOTE GROWTH, AND THE OTHER IS IN THE QUALITY. WE HAVE TWO REALLY ALLOW PEOPLE TO SUCCEED OUTRAGEOUSLY SO IT WILL WEAR DOWN TO THE BENEFITS OF PEOPLE IN THE DOWNSLOPE. GOV. HICKENLOOPER: I DISAGREE. I THINK YOU DO WANT TO ENCOURAGE JOB CREATION. THAT IS WITHIN THE BUSINESS SYSTEM, AND IT DOES REQUIRE TO GET RID OF SOME OF THE RED TAPE, THE NEEDLESS REGULATIONS AND BUREAUCRACY, BUT THE TAKE ON THE DEBT -- THE DEBT WE TOOK ON US THE NATION WAS TO GIVE ONE AND $.5 TRILLION OR $2 TRILLION OF TAX BREAKS LARGELY TO CORPORATIONS THAT DO NOT NEED IT. ONE ESTIMATE I SAW SHOWED THAT ABOUT $900 BILLION OF THAT TAX BREAK -- BASICALLY NEW DEBT IS HOW WE ARE PAYING FOR THAT -- WENT TO THE STOCK MARKET, WHICH IS 30% OWNED BY FOREIGN INDIVIDUALS AND CORPORATIONS. SO WE GAVE $300 MILLION -- $300 BILLION OF MONEY -- WE TOOK ON THAT TO PAY $300 BILLION TO FOREIGN ENTITIES. THAT IS CRAZY. THAT IS NOT WHAT WE NEED. WHAT WE NEED, AND I THINK IT IS APPROPRIATE TO TAKE ON DEBT, FOR INFRASTRUCTURE. I WOULD INCLUDE BRIDGES, ROADS, BROADBAND. IN COLORADO, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE HIGH-SPEED INTERNET IN EVERY SMALL TOWN BY 2022, I THINK THE FIRST LARGE-SCALE STATE TO DO THAT. THAT IS THE BASIC INVESTMENTS THAT ALLOWS OUR RURAL ECONOMIES TO SUCCEED. THAT IS WHERE WE SHOULD BE ARMING MONEY. BUT SHORT-TERM BORROWING. THAT TAX BREAK IS BUYING A SHORT-TERM LITTLE ECONOMIC BOOM -- THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, WHERE WE HAVE SEEN REDUCING UNEMPLOYMENT, AND THE DEFICIT GROWTH -- GROWING EVERY MONTH. THAT IS A TERRIBLE SYSTEM. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION, TO BE BLUNT, RIGHT? DAVID: SO WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, COLORADO WILL BE CANNABIS. INITIALLY, YOU RESISTED. GREG: I WAS AGAINST THIS -- GOV. HICKENLOOPER: DAVID: I WAS AGAINST THIS. I KNOW, AND NOW YOU SAY IT IS EVOLVING. AS YOU LOOK AT CANADIAN COMPANY IS GETTING SO BIG, DO YOU THINK THAT COULD BE AN ECONOMIC DRIVER FOR THE STATE OF COLORADO? GOV. HICKENLOOPER: RIGHT NOW, IT HAS AN ECONOMIC IMPACT. WE ESTIMATE THE CANNABIS INDUSTRY IS $1.5 BILLION A YEAR, BUT WE HAVE A $280 BILLION GDP. IT IS A SMALL PART OF THE ECONOMY AND GENERATES MAYBE $220 MILLION IN TAX REVENUE. WE ARE A $30 BILLION BUDGET. WE SHOULD NOT DO IT TO CREATE TAXES, TO DRIVE THE ECONOMY, BUT I DO THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT -- THE OLD SYSTEM, AND WE STILL HAVE PROBLEMS AND A LOOK AT THIS AS A SOCIAL EXPERIMENT -- I AM A GREAT BELIEVER THAT STATES SHOULD BE THE LABORATORIES IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD ENCOURAGE COLORADO, WASHINGTON, MASSACHUSETTS, CALIFORNIA, AND OTHER STATES SLOWLY MOVING INTO THIS, THEY SHOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE RULES AND REGULATORY FRAMEWORKS AND FULFILL AND PURSUE THIS EXPERIMENT. BUT WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE NEED DATA. WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT AS WE GET DATA, PART OF THIS SHOWS THE OLD SYSTEM WAS A DISASTER, A TRAIN WRECK. WE WERE SENDING MILLIONS OF KIDS TO PRISON, MAKING THEM FELONS. IN MANY WAYS, SENTENCING THEM FOR THEIR ENTIRE LIVES TO BE MARGINALIZED. FOR WHAT PURPOSE? WE HAVE NOT SEEN -- SINCE WE LEGALIZED IT -- ANY INCREASE IN OVERALL CONSUMPTION. THE ONLY DEMOGRAPHIC WE SEE IN INCREASE IS WITH SENIOR CITIZENS. AND I DON ' T KNOW IF THEY ARE GOING BACK TO HIPPIE DAYS IN HIGH SCHOOL OR IN SOME WAY, IT IS ARTHRITIS AND THE ACHES AND PAINS OF GROWING OLDER AND THEY DON ' T WANT OPIOIDS. MOST OF THE THINGS WE HAD WORRIED ABOUT HAVE NOT HAPPENED. I THINK AT THIS POINT, IT IS BECOMING CLEAR -- AND I WANT TO WAIT ANOTHER YEAR TO MAKE SURE -- BUT IT IS BECOMING CLEAR US IS A BETTER SYSTEM THAN THE OLD SYSTEM. WE HAVE A BLACK MARKET. WE THINK WE HAVE $100 MILLION A BLACK MARKET POT IN COLORADO. WELL, 10 YEARS AGO, IT WAS ALL BLACK MARKET. AND LESS DRUG DEALERS. AGAIN, IF YOU HAVE ANY PIPELINE OF DISTRIBUTION, SUDDENLY, YOU ARE MOVE ROUGHLY HALF OF THE PRODUCTS FROM THE PIPELINE AND YOU NEED LESS SALESPEOPLE. THEY THINK MARIJUANA IS ROUGHLY HALF OF THE DRUG BUSINESS. DAVID: YOU WOULD BE DISAPPOINTED IF I DIDN ' T ASK ABOUT THE PRESIDENCY. YOU SAID YOU WON ' T DECIDE UNTIL NEXT YEAR, BUT YOU WERE THOUGHT OF AS A CENTRIST BY MANY. LET ME ASK, WHETHER YOU OR SOMEONE ELSE, WHEN IS THE LAST TIME IN OUR RECENT PRESIDENTIAL HISTORY WHEN SOMEONE MORE TO THE CENTER HAS WON AGAIN SOMEONE MORE TO THE FRINGE? THE TENDENCY SEEMS TO BE THE OPPOSITE. WE GO TO MORE EXTREMES THAN THE CENTER. WHY WOULD IT BE DIFFERENT THIS TIME, WHETHER YOU OR ANOTHER CENTRIST? GOV. HICKENLOOPER: I WOULD ARGUE, A, I DON ' T THINK OF MYSELF ASA CENTRIST OR EXTREMIST. I AM TRYING TO GET A JOB DONE AND CREATE OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERYBODY TO HAVE THE LIFE THEY WANT TO CREATE. THAT IS THE AMERICAN DREAM. KIDS SHOULD HAVE THAT. THE GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A LIFE BETTER THAN THEIR PARENTS AND THAT ISN ' T TRUE TODAY FOR OVERRIDING OF REASONS. I THINK THAT HAVING SOMEONE WHO IS MORE MODERATE IN HOW THEY GET TO THE PLACE -- IN OTHER WORDS, MY WHOLE LIFE, I HAVE A LETTER TO THE EDITOR THAT I WROTE IN 1978 SAYING THAT HEALTH CARE SHOULD BE A RIGHT, NOT A PRIVILEGE. I WON UNIVERSAL COVERAGE. MOST MODERATE REPUBLICANS, MOST EVERYBODY, MOST INDEPENDENTS ARGUE ABOUT WHAT IS COVERED IN THAT, BUT WE SHOULD HAVE -- EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE SOME LEVEL OF HEALTH CARE COVERAGE. HOW WE GET THERE IS IMPORTANT BUT NOT AS IMPORTANT AS RECOGNIZING UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE. THE BATTLE OVER SINGLE-PAYER -- THAT IS WORTH DEBATING BUT NOT WORTH GOING TO WAR FOR. SAME THING IN TERMS OF EDUCATION. I THINK WE NEED DIFFERENT WAYS OF EDUCATING OUR KIDS. 77% WILL NEVER GET A FOUR-YEAR COLLEGE DEGREE. WE HAVE CUT BACK ON VOCATIONAL TRAINING, APPRENTICESHIPS, AND NOT JUST FOR ELECTRICIANS AND PLUMBERS, BUT THANKS FOR AEROSPACE COMPANIES. THERE SHOULD BE POSITIONS FOR ALL OF THAT. THAT IS WHAT FINLAND, SWEDEN, AND MOST OF EUROPE STILL DOES. IS THAT A RADICAL DO THAT EVERYBODY GETS THE EDUCATION THEY NEED TO KEEP UP WITH THE CHANGING WORKFORCE NEEDS AND DEMANDS?I DON ' T THINK THAT IS RADICAL IN ANY WAY. BUT IT ISN ' T MODERATE. IT IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT VISION OF WHAT WE ARE DOING NOW. I REJECT THAT TERMINOLOGY OF MODERATES OR EXTREMES. I THINK WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT WHAT OTHER GOALS THAT WE ALL AGREE TO? AND WHAT ARE THE BEST WAYS TO GET THERE? CERTAINLY, WITH DEMOCRATS, WE HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT STRATEGIES IN TERMS OF OBTAINING THE GOALS BUT MOST OF US HAVE THE SAME GOALS. DAVID: YOU HAVE A LETTER WITH GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH OF OHIO OUT TO ROBERT LIGHTHIZER, THE TRADE REPRESENTATIVE, ABOUT TARIFFS. GOV. HICKENLOOPER: I THINK THE WAY THEY HAVE GONE ABOUT TARIFFS , THE ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN RECKLESS, AND IT IS AFFECTING PEOPLE IN COLORADO VERY SERIOUSLY, SO AGRICULTURAL PRODUCERS ARE HAVING A HARD TIME ALREADY WITH COMMODITY PRICES AND NOW THEY ARE WORSE. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. WE HAVE LARGE BUDWEISER BREWERY COMPANIES, PROBABLY MORE CRAFT BREWERIES THAN ANYBODY IN THE COUNTRY. WE ARE THE NAPA VALLEY OF FEAR IN COLORADO, BUT THE TARIFFS ON ALUMINUM OR ADDING UNNECESSARY COST THAT I AM NOT SURE BENEFIT ANYONE. WE HAVE ONE LARGE ELECTRONIC COMPANY THAT WILL LOSE THOUSANDS OF JOBS BECAUSE OF THE TARIFFS. THEY WILL HAVE TO RESTRUCTURE THEIR SUPPLY LINES. THEY SPENT $25 MILLION A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO ON A LOGISTICS CENTER IN COLORADO AND ARE SPENDING $120 MILLION ON NEW BUILDINGS IN COLORADO. THEY WILL PROBABLY HAVE TO ABANDON SOME OF THE INVESTMENTS, LAY OFF 1000 PEOPLE THEY HAVE HIRED, AND NOT HIGHER 1000 MORE BECAUSE ONCE THE CHANGE THOSE SUPPLY CHAINS, AND HOW THEY OPERATE, IT IS SO DISRUPTIVE THAT THEY WILL NOT GO BACK WHEN THE TARIFFS ARE LOOSE, AND THEY WILL MAKE THOSE DECISIONS IN THE NEXT TWO MONTHS. THAT IS CRAZY. THAT IS A BIG REASON WHY I SAY THE DEMOCRATS REALLY DO NEED TO TAKE THE HOUSE AND SOMEONE HAS TO PUSH BACK. YOU CANNOT JUST THROW EVERYTHING OUT AND SAY, WE ARE NOT GOING TO WORRY ABOUT THIS. WE ARE GOING TO GET IT FIXED SOON. PEOPLE MADE MORE STABILITY. ESPECIALLY WITH COMPANIES WITH A LARGE CAPITAL INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT. DAVID: THAT WAS MY CONVERSATION

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Colorado Governor Hickenlooper on Trump, Cannabis, Tariffs

Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper, a Democrat, discusses President Donald Trump's policies, the state's experiment with legalized cannabis, and the impact of trade tariffs on Colorado businesses. He speaks with Bloomberg's David Westin on "Bloomberg Markets: Balance of Power." (Source: Bloomberg)

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