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00:00Well of course he blames the whole Ukrainian crisis on Putin . That's not plausible history no serious historian will ever write it that way. But I have to ask you is it really true in Canada that people are looking for alternative explanations of the crisis. I think it's a little bit different Stephen and to the extent that the media has been a bit more balanced on this issue I think that the drumbeats of Fox is while they reach our shores they don't originate here. So we do have a different type of conversation at least we we think we do and it's one of the reasons we're talking to you today. Well I'll ask Trump if I can emigrate to Canada because here I assure you in the mainstream media I mean the New York Times The Washington Post the cable talk stations there's only one version of the Ukrainian crisis and that is in 2014 with nothing else to do invaded Ukraine the country apart and is keeping it in crisis and he's responsible for the ten thousand who died the nearly 2 million refugees and the relation of Ukraine. That's an absolute fairy tale. We go back to 214 would be a longer discussion and we can have but suffice it to say that in Moscow's ISE and they're not crazy in Moscow we invaded Ukraine a kind of hybrid war leading up to the overthrow of the elected president of Viktor Yanukovich in February to 14. It was that that triggered countermeasures of Moscow. Ever since then we've been in action reaction mode with Moscow and we have a frozen crisis because nobody wants to implement or at least in Ukraine the so-called Minsk accords the Minsk accords. I guess you all know what it is it means if Kiev has to give the rebel provinces some degree of home rule some kind of federalism as you have in Canada. And in addition to that which would keep the rebel provinces in Ukraine Ukrainian state thereafter must belong to no military bloc not NATO or anything comes up. That's the only solution. The alternative is likely to be and we may be seeing that in recent developments several Ukraine's because the country is coming apart. So would you see this recent Russian move to introduce the ruble in eastern Ukraine to create some kind of passport to allow these people to come and go. Is all of that again part of a strategy to permanently pull this region out on terms different than the Minsk accord. No . The last line that the president of Russia Lattimore has wanted since the crisis began is to absorb those eastern Ukrainian provinces into the Russian Federation. The way he annexed Crimea. This is a completely different situation. He doesn't want that. He wants Ukraine to remain night. That's why he along with Merkel of Germany and a lot of foreigners and Poroshenko the president of Ukraine though he was not sincere signed or agreed to the Minsk accords. The whole idea that this of course is to keep Ukraine whole. What's been going on in recent weeks is complex. Kiev has mounted a new military offensive across the ceasefire line and it is allowing its ultralight battalions to blockade coal and other goods flowing from Dan Bos to Kiev. In return Russia is reminding Kiev and I guess Washington and Europe that it could go farther and recognize the autonomy if not quite the sovereignty of the rebel provinces. Bear in mind that the passport is not what you would think of as a passport a document. We used to travel abroad . It's the basic internal I.D. document people who live in Boston though have no recognizable I.D. documents outside their provinces and yet their relatives their economy are in Russia they can't even cross the border so Putin made that easier. We'll recognize your I.D. cards and the rest using the ruble means that somebody has to sustain the ruin done boss in the future. And it's falling increasingly on Russia. Russia unless the West cares to do it and I don't think it will so Stephen what's next here. I mean you've studied a lot of history you've seen a lot of these types of conflicts. Where does this go from here. Is this a long slow burn or can we find our way to some type of resolution to stop the killing. The reality is that there are powerful competing political forces in Ukraine some wanting this someone in that but also in Russia a lot of people don't regard as wise what they think is the soft line Putin has followed in Ukraine. Their position is just take it all we can take what we want 48 hours with our army and the West will squawk but they can't do anything about it. He hasn't done that. I think in the end because the situation inside Kiev is so complex shakers are afraid to implement any kind of federation laws as we call as called for by the Minsk accord because the ultra right wing movement in Ukraine which is heavily armed and quite fanatical will as it has threatened to hang him from the nearest light pole. So he's caught between his commitments to the European Union to implement this agreement and political forces at home. Putin on the other hand I think in part is waiting to see what kind of policy is going to come out of Washington is Washington going to do anything to compel Kiev to implement those accords. But if the Minsk agreement is dead completely dead I think all bets are off. It probably means more war. And as I said at the beginning the possibility of two or three Ukraine's within a year or two . Let's end on what's happening where you are. The United States I mean is there a coherent American policy here that the Trump administration has towards the Ukraine or again are we kind of lost here a no man's land until this president somehow figures out what in fact the relationship of his campaign was vis a vis the Russian government. Most of my scholarly study over the years have been biography. I wrote a biography of the Soviet leader I did a long study of Khrushchev . I studied their American counterparts on parts I may over emphasize the more leadership in the world perhaps. I think we're at a moment where wise leadership in Russia in Washington and to a certain extent in Europe could at least get a peaceful however fragile resolution of the Ukrainian crisis. And since it's the political epicenter of the new Cold War that's extremely important. The problem is and we can't blame this on Trump. Obama had no policy either. He wouldn't escalate wisely military aid to Ukraine. He didn't attempt to compel because we weren't formally a party of in the Minsk of the implementation of the Minsk accords. And basically what he did was send Vice President Biden to Kiev to say hold on but hold on for a while. He tried but Obama wanted leave the crisis in the hands of the Europeans who at least 50 percent were responsible for creating the crisis. The Europeans are now in a crisis of their own. They don't even want to hear about Ukraine any longer. So in the end it's going to be a Russian American and to a certain extent Ukrainian resolution there. If there was and I think the alternative is more war .

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Russia's Role in Ukraine

Much of the Western media has consistently portrayed Russia as the bad actor in the Ukraine conflict. Are there different ways to understand Russia's motives? Stephen Cohen, professor emeritus of Russian studies and politics at Princeton University and New York University discusses Russia’s role with Bloomberg North's Rudyard Griffiths. (Source: Bloomberg)

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