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00:00OLIVER: SEE YOU BACK HERE TOMORROW. ♪ WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO DONALD TRUMP, THE SEARCH FOR A RUNNING MATE HAS BECOME KIND OF CONFUSING. DONALD TRUMP: I AM NARROWING IT DOWN. AT THREE, POTENTIALLY FOUR. IN MY MIND I'M THINKING ABOUT TWO. ♪ MARK: IT WOULD NOT BE THE QUADRENNIAL THE STAKES WITHOUT SOME DRAMATIC TWISTS AND TURNS. TODAY DONALD TRUMP TOOK HIS SHOWMANSHIP TO NEW AND DRAMATIC HEIGHTS BY MOVING HIS RUNNING MATE SEARCH TO INDIANA. I AM IN INDIANAPOLIS. IT HAS BECOME THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE. AT THE GOVERNOR'S RESIDENCE, DONALD TRUMP AND HIS ELDEST CHILDREN HAD BREAKFAST AT THE HOME OF ONE OF HIS TOP CONTENDERS. INDIANA GOVERNOR MIKE PENCE. HE AUDITIONED AT A RALLY LAST NIGHT. AS TRUMPS DECISION LOOMS, WITH A SUSPECTED FRIDAY ANNOUNCEMENT. NEWT GINGRICH AND JEFF SESSIONS ALSO CAME TO THE HOOSIER STATE FOR THEIR OWN LAST-MINUTE FACE-TO-FACE HUDDLE WITH THE CANDIDATE AT A DOWNTOWN HOTEL. HE ALSO REPORTEDLY CALLED CHRIS CHRISTIE TODAY. IF YOU ARE CONFUSED ABOUT WHERE TRUMP STANDS ON THIS DECISION, DON'T WORRY. THE CANDIDATE CLEARED IT UP AND INTO WITH BRETT PAIR OF FOX NEWS. DONALD TRUMP: THE GOVERNOR HAS BEEN AMAZING. WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS. NEWT GINGRICH IS COMING IN TO SEE ME. CHRIS CHRISTIE IS SOMETHING I HAVE LIKED FOR A LONG TIME. HE IS A TOTAL PROFESSIONAL. I AM NARROWING IT DOWN. I AM AT THREE, POTENTIALLY FOUR. BUT IN MY OWN MIND PROBABLY TO. MARK: I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO FOLLOW THE BOUNCING BALL FROM INDIANAPOLIS TO CLEVELAND. WHERE'S THE RUNNING MATE SEARCH STAND? JOHN: I THINK AFTER ALL THE DRAMA OF TODAY WITH PANTS AND WITH THINKING MAYBE HE'S THE GUY. THEN WE HEARD THAT SESSIONS AND GINGRICH ARE ALSO ON THEIR WAY TO INDIANA. AND HE SPOKE TO CHRISTIE. I THINK WE ARE NOT THAT FAR FROM WHERE WE WERE 24 HOURS AGO WE TALKED ABOUT ON THE SHOW. I BELIEVE WE HAVE A SHORT LIST NOW AND THE SHORTLIST IS THREE PEOPLE, GINGRICH CHRISTIE, MIKE PENCE, AND MAYBE SESSIONS. BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM IT IS MUCH TO GO ON WITH SESSIONS. DONALD TRUMP IS DOING FINAL CUT CHECKS ON THESE MEN. MARK: I THINK JEFF SESSIONS IS BEING DONE AS A COURTESY. THE OTHER THREE ARE VIABLE CONTENDERS. IF HE GOES WITH HIS HEAD TO UNITE THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT AND NOT RISK A RUNNING MATE WHO CAUSE DISTRACTIONS HE WILL GO WITH GOVERNOR MIKE PENCE. IF HE GOES WITH THE PEOPLE HE FEELS MORE COMFORTABLE WITH PEOPLE GO WITH EITHER GINGRICH OR CHRISTIE. ONE THING WE DON'T KNOW IS THE OFFENDING ISSUE. BOTH GINGRICH AND CHRISTIE HAVE KNOWN THINGS IN THEIR DOSSIERS THAT COULD BE DISTRACTIONS. WE JUST DON'T KNOW HOW HEAVILY DONALD TRUMP IS WEIGHING THOSE THINGS. WE KNOW THAT THE BALANCE OF RECOMMENDATIONS AMONG EVIL AROUND HIM IS WEIGHTED MORE TOWARD MIKE PENCE THAN THE OTHER TWO. JOHN: PAUL MATT FORTE LIKES THE IDEA OF PENCE. DONALD TRUMP STILL NEEDS TO CONSOLIDATE REPORT -- SUPPORT AMONG REPUBLICANS. MIKE PENCE GIVES HIM THE CARD TO PLAY WITH CONSERVATIVES. PAUL RYAN A COMMENT ABOUT HOW HE WOULD LIKE TO BE REASSURED THAT DONALD TRUMP IS A GENUINE CONSERVATIVE. THE QUESTION OF A NOMINEE LOOKING INTO THE EYES OF THESE PEOPLE THAT HE WOULD NOT JUST BE PUTTING ON THE TICKET AS A COHORT ON THE ROAD IN A CAMPAIGN SETTING BUT WHO HE WOULD LIKE TO GOVERN WITH IF THEY BECOME PRESIDENT IS A HUGE THING. THAT GUT CHECK REALLY MATTERS. HE DOESN'T SEE WHAT THE WHO'S AFRAID OF DISTRACTIONS. ON THE BASIS OF HOW HE HAS CAMPAIGNED SO FAR. MAYBE IT WILL MATTER SO MUCH. HE COULD SAY SCREW IT, I WANT TO BE WITH CHRISTIE. HE IS MORE MY KIND OF GUY. MARK: I THINK HE LIKES HIS OWN DISTRACTIONS RATHER THAN OTHER ONES. JOHN: NEW DETAILS ABOUT THE LINEUP OF THE UPCOMING DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION IN PHILADELPHIA. ELIZABETH WARREN, MICHELLE OBAMA, BERNIE SANDERS ARE ALL SCHEDULED TO SPEAK. THEN PRESIDENT OBAMA WILL TAKE THE STAGE. AMAZINGLY IT IS MORE THAN WE KNOW ABOUT THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION WHICH STARTS IN JUST FIVE DAYS. REPORTS ARE THE TRUMPS FAMILY WILL PLAY A BIG ROLE. SCOTT WALKER WILL BE SPEAKING. WE STILL DON'T HAVE A FULL SCHEDULE. MANY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE LACK OF ORGANIZATION AND LOGISTICS AND SECURITY TO DEAL WITH TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DEMONSTRATORS ON THE STREETS OF CLEVELAND. HOW LIKELY IS IT THAT THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION IS GOING TO BE A TOTAL BUST? MARK: THEY ARE WELL BEHIND IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY SAID PUBLICLY. THE DONALD TRUMP OPERATION CAN DEFY GRAVITY AS LONG AS THEY FILL THE TIME OF THE STAGE AND STUFF HAPPENS EVERY DAY THAT FEEDS THE JOURNALISTS. THEY WILL BE OK. IT'S NOT THAT MUCH PROGRAMMING. IT'S NOT 24 HOURS. IT IS A HIGH WIRE THING AND THEY ARE A LITTLE BIT IN DANGER OF FALLING OFF THE WIRE. JOHN: THE BIG BODY AT -- CAVEATS IS THE SECURITY ISSUE ON THE STREETS IN CLEVELAND. GIVEN WHAT IS HAPPENED IN AMERICA OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST WEEK. IMAGES OF CHAOS AND DISORDER , THOSE KINDS OF IMAGES COULD QUICKLY OVERWHELM ANYTHING GOING ON THE CONVENTION STAGE. IF THAT HAPPENS THIS COULD REALLY BE A MESS. NOT JUST IN TERMS OF TELEVISION PRODUCTION BUT POLITICALLY FOR DONALD TRUMP AND HIS CHANCES TO BECOME PRESIDENT. MARK: IF THEY HAD MORE BANDWIDTH AMONG THE HIGH COMMAND THEY COULD BE COORDINATED WITH THE SECRET SERVICE LOCAL POLICE IN A MORE CONFIDENT WAY. TAKING THE SPEAKERS IS THE FIRST STEP. THEN YOU GOT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ORDER PEOPLE ARE SPEAKING IN AN COORDINATING THEIR PRESENTATIONS. YOU DON'T WANT ANOTHER CLINT EASTWOOD SITUATION. THEY'RE TAKING A RISK HERE. THIS IS AN AREA WHERE TRUMP'S SHOWMANSHIP AND HIS FAMILY MAYBE ONE PAPER OVER. ALMOST A WEEK AFTER THE DALLAS SHOOTING THAT KILLED FIVE POLICE OFFICERS HILLARY CLINTON INVOKES ABRAHAM LINCOLN'S HOUSE DIVIDED SPEECH TODAY WITH HER OWN PLEA FOR NATIONAL UNITY IN REMARKS AT THE OLD ILLINOIS STATE CAPITAL. HER SPEECH WHICH CAME ONE DAY AFTER PRESIDENT OBAMA AND PRESIDENT BUSH SPOKE ABOUT MEMORIAL URGED AMERICANS TO APPRECIATE THE DIFFICULT WORK THE POLICE DO AND ALSO CALLED FOR ENDING THE SYSTEMATIC RACISM HILLARY CLINTON: AS SOMEONE IN THE MIDDLE OF A HOTLY FOUGHT POLITICAL CAMPAIGN I CAN'T CLAIM THAT MY WORDS AND ACTIONS HAVEN'T SOMETIMES FUELED THE PARTISANSHIP THAT OFTEN STANDS IN THE WAY OF PROGRESS. FOUGHT POLITICALI RECOGNIZE THAT I HAVE TO DO BETTER. IN TIMES LIKE THESE WE NEED A PRESIDENT WHO CAN HELP US TOGETHER. NOT TO US APART. THAT IS WHY I BELIEVE DONALD TRUMP IS SO DANGEROUS. HE SAYS THAT HE DOESN'T WIN IN NOVEMBER WE WON'T HAVE A COUNTRY ANYMORE. AMERICA IS NOT GOING TO CONTINUE TO SURVIVE. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT. THIS MAN IS THE NOMINEE OF THE PARTY OF LINCOLN. WE ARE WATCHING HIS BECOME THE PARTY OF DONALD TRUMP. THAT IS NOT JUST A HUGE LOSS FOR OUR DEMOCRACY. IT IS A THREAT TO IT. MARK: THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN SAID THESE WERE MAJOR REMARKS. DONALD TRUMP HAS CALLED HIMSELF THE LAW AND ORDER CANDIDATE. JOHN: SHE IS TRYING TO BE THE CANDIDATE OF OPTIMISM. GUARDED OPTIMISM, REALISTIC OPTIMISM. ALSO SOMEONE WHO TRAFFICS IN THE KIND OF APOCALYPTIC RHETORIC THAT IS SOMETIMES APPEALING TO CERTAIN SEGMENT BUT NOT GENERALLY. I CAN'T FIGURE TIME IT HAS EVER ONE GENERAL ELECTION. SHE FRAMED IT RELATIVELY WELL FROM HER POINT OF VIEW. IT DOESN'T MEAN THE TRUMPS MESSAGES AND STILL POWERFUL. THEY SAY THAT TRUMP WON'T ACKNOWLEDGE ANY MISTAKES. SHE IS NOT TOO FAR OFF THAT. SHE SAID THE E-MAILS WERE A MISTAKE. FOR HER TO SAY TODAY IN A HEARTFELT WAY THAT SHE HAS BEEN PART OF THE PARTISANSHIP. THAT IS SMART. HER ARGUMENT IN THE END ABOUT TRUMP IS THAT HE IS UNREASONABLE AND I AM REASONABLE. THAT WAS A PRETTY BIG CONCESSION TO MAKE. LET'S SEE IF SHE CAN KEEP HIS TONE UP. IF THIS IS A ONE-OFF GIVEN THE VEEPSTAKES EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON. I'M NOT SURE THE SPEECH WILL BREAK THROUGH FOR VERY MANY VOTERS. UNLESS SHE SUSTAINS THE TONE AND THE IDEAS. JOHN: IT IS LESS THAN A WEEK AWAY FROM ALL THE STUFF THAT HAPPENED LAST WEEK IN MINNEAPOLIS AND THEN IN DALLAS. THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY WHO WANT A UNIFYING FIGURE NOT A DIVISIVE FIGURE. WHEN WE COME BACK, DONALD TRUMP PICKING UP MOMENTUM IN A LOT OF BATTLEGROUND STATE POLLS. AFTER THIS BREAK. ♪ JOHN: WELCOME BACK. WE HAD A TSUNAMI OF BATTLEGROUND STATE POLLS TODAY. DONALD TRUMP IS GAINING GROUND ON HILLARY CLINTON IN THESE BATTLEGROUND STATES. DONALD TRUMP TIED WITH CLINTON IN OHIO WHERE HE TRAILED OR BY SIX POINTS COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO. SHE IS AHEAD BY 13 IN COLORADO. IN WISCONSIN SHE IS UP BY SIX. THE DONALD TRUMP IS CLOSE TO THE GAP IN OTHER STATES INCLUDING THE KEY BATTLEGROUND STATE OF FLORIDA. THAT IS AN 11 POINT SWING IN TRUMPS DIRECTION IN LESS THAN A MONTH. WE TALKED ABOUT A NEW POLL THAT SHOWED HILLARY WITH A BIG LEAD AMONG COLLEGE-EDUCATED VOTERS. THAT DOESN'T USUALLY HAPPEN FOR DEMOCRATS. LOOKING AT ALL THESE POLLS , ONE OF THE REALITIES AND IMPLICATIONS FOR THESE CANDIDATES? MARK: PEOPLE GOING TO HAVE TO GET USED TO SEEING A DIFFERENCE DURING THE NATIONAL POLLS AND THE STATE POLLS. THE POLITICAL REALITY IS IT IS GREAT FOR TRUMP UNEVENLY CONVENTION. IT ALLOWS HIM TO FEEL LIKE HE HAS GOT THE MOMENTUM. TO ARGUE TO THE DELEGATES WERE THEY MIGHT BE SOME WAVERING. THIS GUY CAN WIN 200 AND ELECTORAL VOTES SO GET IN LINE. THE CLINTON FOLKS ARE NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT ON ONE LEVEL. IF THEY CONTINUE TO BELIEVE THAT THEIR BIGGEST CHALLENGE IS GETTING DEMOCRATS, DONORS AND ACTIVISTS AND VOLUNTEERS, TO BELIEVE THAT THEY COULD LOSE AND TO BE ENERGIZED IN THE WAY THEY NEED TO BE. JOHN: MANY OF THESE POLLS WERE CONDUCTED IN THE WAKE OF THE FBI DIRECTORS RULING LAST WEEK. HE TOOK IT AS A WOODSHED EVEN AS HE LET HER OFF THE HOOK. IT SEEMS THOUGH FOR SOME NUMBER OF VOTERS JAMES COMEY'S CRITICISMS OF CLINTON HAVE SUNK IN. IN ALL OF THESE STATES DONALD TRUMP HAS GAINED SOME GROUND. THAT IS THE BIG TAKE AWAY HERE. WE CAN'T TELL THE CAUSATION YET. IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THE FBI DECISION ALTHOUGH SPEARING HER FROM THE EXISTENTIAL THREAT OF PROSECUTION MAY HAVE TAKEN SOME OF THE TEMPORARY TOLL ON HER POLE STANDING. MARK: IF IT IS TRUE THAT THESE POLLS REPRESENT AN ACCURATE NOTION THAT TRUMP IS DOING BETTER, THE PRESS MAY BE OVEREMPHASIZED DONALD TRUMP'S FAILURE IN HIS SPEECHES TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE JAMES COMEY THING. IT HAPPENED ALL ON ITS OWN. HE DID NEED TO TALK AS MUCH ABOUT IT AS HIS CRITICS SAID HE DID. JOHN: YOU COULD ARGUE THAT IF YOU DRIVEN THE MESSAGE HE WOULD GOT AN EVEN BIGGER BOUNCE. MARK: NAFTA THAT'S FAST BETWEEN SUPREME COURT JUSTICE RUTH BADER GINSBURG AND DONALD TRUMP. IT IS BEEN A FEW DAYS SINCE JUSTICE GINSBURG TOLD THE ASSOCIATED PRESS IN THE NEW YORK TIMES THAT SHE DIDN'T WANT TO THINK ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF DONALD TRUMP IN THE WHITE HOUSE. SHE TOLD CNN LEGAL ANALYST JONAS KUBIK THAT DONALD TRUMP IS A FAKER AND CALLED HIM OUT FOR NOT RELEASING HIS TAX RETURNS. DONALD TRUMP CALLED THOSE COMMENTS INAPPROPRIATE. ONLY THE REPUBLICAN FRONT-RUNNER WENT AS FAR AS TO SEND A MIDNIGHT TWEET THAT JUSTICE GINSBURG HAS EMBARRASSED ALL OF US. HER MIND IS SHOT. RESIGN. IS A GOOD IDEA FOR TRUMP TO PICKS THIS FIGHT? JOHN: IT WAS VERY UNUSUAL FOR JUSTICE GINSBURG TO DO WHAT SHE DID. PROBABLY INAPPROPRIATE. MARK: DEFINITELY INAPPROPRIATE. TO BE CRITICIZED BY DEMOCRATS IN THIS PARTISAN. WAS EXTRAORDINARY. IF A REPUBLICAN JUSTICE HAD DONE THIS, THE WORLD EXPLODED. JOHN: THE QUESTION IS WHETHER DONALD TRUMP GETS MUCH BENEFIT OUT OF ATTACKING RUTH GINSBURG THE WAY HE IS ATTACKING HER. IF DONALD TRUMP IN A SOBER WAY WERE TO CALL ATTENTION TO THIS, EVERYONE IN THE WORLD WHO IS NOT HOPELESSLY PARTISAN WOULD SAY DONALD TRUMP HAS A POINT THERE. BUT TO SAY THAT HER MIND IS SHOT. IT IS A CHILDISH RESPONSE. IT PLAYS INTO THE NOTION THAT DONALD TRUMP'S TEMPERAMENT IS NOT THAT GREAT. MARK: IF THEY ARE USING THE COURT TO ENERGIZE THE BASE. IT IS GOOD FOR TRUMP EVEN TO DO IT THIS WAY. HE WANTS TO PERSONALIZE THE NOTION THAT THE LIBERALS ON THE SUPREME COURT NEED TO BE REPLACED BY CONSERVATIVES. THIS IS GOING TO GET ATTENTION. BOTH SIDES TRY TO MAKE THE COURT AN ISSUE AND IT IS VERY HARD TO DO. HE DOES HAVE SOME PEOPLE ON THE LEFT RESIZING GINSBURG. -- CRITICIZING GINSBURG. JOHN: IT IS AN INCREDIBLE FIGHT. JUST AMAZING. UP NEXT, WE HAD TWO STRATEGIC MASTERMINDS. JAMES CARVILLE AND I NEED IT ANITA DUNN. AFTER THESE MESSAGES. ♪ MARK: WITH US IS DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST JAMES CARVILLE AND ALSO ANITA DUNN. SO IS THE GOOD AND THE BAD. ANITA: I THINK PICKING PANTS COULD HELP THEM CARRY INDIANA. THAT'S THE GOOD. HE IS NOT EXCITING. HE IS NOT DYNAMIC. HE HAS SOME REAL NEGATIVES FROM HIS TIME AS GOVERNOR. JAMES CARVILLE: I THINK WE HELP THE DEMOCRATS CARRY INDIANA. HE COULD WIN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE. HOW IS HE GOING TO HELP WIN THE PRESIDENCY. JOHN: YOU BOTH THINK MIKE PENCE IS A BAD IDEA. WHAT ABOUT CHRIS CHRISTIE? ANITA: CHRIS CHRISTIE IS A GOOD RUNNING MATE IF THE ONLY THING HE EVER HAD TO DO WAS GO DEBATE WHOEVER THE DEMOCRATS NOMINATED FOR VICE PRESIDENT. UNFORTUNATELY HE BRINGS HIS BAGGAGE AND HIS PERSONALITY WITH HIM. THAT OUTWEIGHS HIS PERFORMANCE IN DEBATES. JAMES CARVILLE: CHRIS CHRISTIE CRUSHED MARCO RUBIO. THERE IS A LOT OF DOWNSIDES TO CHRIS CHRISTIE. IT ASSUMES THAT THE DEMOCRATIC VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE CAN'T GET READY FOR THE DEBATE WHICH IS A PRETTY BIG ASSUMPTION. ANITA: IT SCARES ME A JAMES SIRE AGREEING SO MUCH. MARK: YOU HAD A DECADE-LONG RELATIONSHIP WITH NEWT GINGRICH. IS HE A BETTER CHOICE? JAMES CARVILLE. IF YOU TOOK THE COMBINED APPROVAL RATINGS IN EACH OF THEIR STATES I DON'T THINK WITHIN UP TO 75. THE REPUBLICANS HAVE THIS ARTICLE IN THE TIMES TODAY ABOUT THE DEEP BENCH IN THE TALENT AT HOW MULTIETHNIC THE PARTY WAS. THIS IS A REFLECTION OF A DEEPER PROBLEM THAT THEY HAVE. GINGRICH IS AN AGGRESSIVE GUY. HE COULD ATTACK HILLARY. THAT'S ALL I CAN THINK OF. I ANITA: THEY NATURALLY DID HAVE SOME GOOD POTENTIAL CHOICES BUT TRUMP HAD INSULTED THEM. NEWT GINGRICH TEMPERAMENTALLY IS SOMEBODY THAT TRUMP IS COMFORTABLE WITH. IT IS IMPORTANT. NOTHING SAYS FUTURE LIKE SOMEBODY WHO WAS SPEAKER IN 1995. MARK: OR FIRST LADY BACK THEN. JOHN: WHAT ABOUT JEFF SESSIONS? WOULD JEFF SESSIONS BE A STRONGER CHOICE? ANITA: I'M NOT SURE WHAT JEFF SESSIONS WOULD BRING TO IT OTHER THAN SOMEBODY WHO HAS SERVED IN THE CONGRESS. SENATOR SESSIONS IS SOMEONE THAT TRUMP SEEMS COMFORTABLE WITH AS WELL. HE IS VERY PARTISAN. HE IS FROM THE DEEP SOUTH STATES THAT IS NOT GOING TO BE COMPETITIVE. HE GIVES HIM THE ABILITY TO KEEP IT -- IT SAY HE PICKED SOMEBODY. JAMES CARVILLE. : THE CHOICES I HAVE FOR VICE PRESIDENT ARE VERY LIMITED. AS I WOULD BE FOR PRESIDENT. I CAN'T THINK THAT'S OBVIOUS. MARK: MORE WITH THE DUO OF JAMES CARVILLE AND ANITA DUNN AFTER THIS. ♪ . . MARK: BACK NOW WITH JAMES CARVILLE AND ANITA DUNN. LAST SEGMENT, WE TALKED ABOUT TRUMP'S VICE PRESIDENT OPTIONS. LEAVE TIM KAINE ASIDE FOR A SECOND. WITH ANOTHER NAME THAT SHOULD BE OUT THERE THAT YOU THINK WOULD BE A GOOD ALTERNATIVE TO CANA SHE DECIDES AGAINST THEM? ANITA: I'VE ALWAYS IN A FAN OF HAVING ELIZABETH BORN ON THIS TICKET. ELIZABETH WORN IS GREAT CAMPAIGNER AND SHE KENEXA EXTREMELY WELL WITH VOTERS CONCERNED ABOUT ECONOMIC INEQUALITY. I THINK IT WOULD BE A GREAT TICKET. -- SHE CONNECTS EXTREMELY WELL WITH VOTERS. JAMES: I WOULD LOVE AN ELIZABETH WARREN AND CHRIS CHRISTIE DEBATE. ELIZABETH WARREN IS PERFECT. SHERROD BROWN, TOM VILSACK, THE CASTRO'S -- I DON'T THINK WE ARE GOING TO KNOW. MY GUESS IS SHE'S GOING TO BE VERY DELIBERATE, LISTEN TO EVERYBODY, READ EVERYTHING AND MAKE UP HER MIND LATER FOR TOP IF HE PICKS CHRIS CHRISTIE, PLEASE PICK ELIZABETH WORN BECAUSE THAT VICE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE WOULD BE ONE FOR THE AGES. JOHN: IF YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT THE RUNNING MATE SELECTION IS TRYING TO ADDRESS THE VULNERABILITY, WHAT IS THE MAIN VULNERABILITY CLINTON NEEDS TO SOLVE? JAMES: IF YOU LOOK AT THE POLLS, ACROSS THE BOARD, SHE HAS TO SHOW SHE IS IN IT FOR PEOPLE AS OPPOSED TO HERSELF. SHE HAS A LARGER MOTIVATION, WHICH I THINK SHE DOES. I THINK WARREN WOULD HELP THERE. YOU HAVE A LOT OF COLLEGE-EDUCATED REPUBLICANS, SO SHE MIGHT WANT TO GO IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A FALSE FLAG OPERATION, I WOULD NOT PUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT PASTOR. I HAPPEN TO THINK THE DEMOCRATIC COALITION, IF YOU UNIFY IT, IT'S HARD TO LOSE THE GENERAL ELECTION FOR IF SHE CAN DO THAT, I THINK SHE WILL BE FINE. JOHN: WHAT PROBLEM DOES SHE NEED TO SOLVE? ANITA: SHE DOESN'T NEED TO SOLVE ANYWHERE NEAR THE NUMBER OF PROBLEMS DONALD TRUMP DOES IT NEEDS TO SOLVE EXPERIENCE, THE ABILITY TO GET THINGS DONE IN WASHINGTON, FOREIGN POLICY THE KNOWLEDGE AND BASIC TEMPERAMENT AND QUALIFICATIONS, ALL OF WHICH I THINK ARE UNSOLVABLE BY HIS VICE PRESIDENT. SHE COULD GO WITH A CANDIDATE WHO IS A YOUNGER GENERATION THAT COULD SEND THE MESSAGE ABOUT THE TEACHER AND STRONGER TOGETHER, DIVERSITY, OR AS JAMES SAID, SHE COULD LOOK TO SOMEONE THAT COULD COMMUNICATE THAT SHE REALLY DOES CARE ABOUT PEOPLE. THAT'S SOMEBODY IN THE ECONOMIC SPIRIT LIKE SHERROD AROUND. TIM KAINE IS A TERRIFIC GUY AND GREAT CAMPAIGNER, FLUENT IN SPANISH, WAS IN THE PEACE CORPS, HAS THE EXPERIENCE AND QUALIFICATIONS PEOPLE LOOK FOR, AND HE WOULD BE ADDITIVE TO THE TICKET, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S WHO DOES SHE THINK SHOULD BE THE VICE PRESIDENT BASED ON HER KNOWLEDGE AND BELIEF ON WHO WOULD MAKE A GOOD PRESIDENT. SHE WILL MAKE A GOOD CHOICE. MARK: ARE YOU GIVING ADVICE TO HILLARY CLINTON THESE DAYS DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY? JAMES: I'M GIVING INDIRECT ADVICE ALL THE TIME. BUT I THINK SHE SET ON GOING THROUGH EACH THING. I KNOW HER AND I KNOW SHE'S GOING TO GO THROUGH THIS AND SHE WILL LISTEN TO ANYTHING ANYBODY HAS TO SAY FOR THE ONE THING I DO THINK SHE NEEDS, HAVING RUN AGAINST BOTH BERNIE SANDERS AND DONALD TRUMP IS A LITTLE BIT MORE OF THE STATUS QUO SIDE AND SHE REALLY IS. HOW CAN YOU BE MORE CHANGE THAN DONALD TRUMP? A VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE THAT WOULD SEND A SIGNAL THAT THERE SOME CHANGE COMING WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL. I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT LAYS OUT BUT I THINK IT IS SOMETHING SHE SHOULD CONSIDER. MARK: YOU TALK TO A LOT OF DEMOCRATS IN THESE BATTLEGROUND STATES. WHAT IS YOUR OVERVIEW ABOUT HOW DEMOCRATS ARE FEELING ABOUT POSSIBLY LOSING TO TRUMP IN THIS RACE? ANITA: I THINK HOLES DONE IN JULY AFTER YOU HAVE HAD A SIGNIFICANT NEWS EVENT ARE NOT CLOSE TO PREDICTIVE TO WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN NOVEMBER. TRUMP , BASED ON THE WORST MONTH OF CAMPAIGNING -- MARK: ARE PEOPLE WORRIED IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY? ANITA: I DON'T THINK PEOPLE ARE WORRIED. I THINK THEY UNDERSTAND IT'S GOING TO BE A CLOSE RACE, THAT WE HAVE TO WIN IT AND WE SHOULD NOT TAKE IT FOR GRANTED. I THINK DEMOCRATS LOOK AT TRUMP AND THINK HOW COULD THAT GUY WENT AND THERE IS A COMPLACENCY. THESE POLLS SHOULD BE A WAKE-UP CALL. BUT I DON'T THINK PEOPLE ARE WORRIED. I THINK PEOPLE LOOK AT HER AND SEE SOMEONE WHO CAN WIN THE DEBATES, HAVE A GREAT CONVENTION, AND IT'S A PLACE WHERE SHE IS GOING TO WIN. JOHN: IN THE WAKE OF LOUISIANA, I KNOW YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THAT STATE, MINNESOTA AND DALLAS, TRUMP IS PLAYING THE LAW AND ORDER CARD. IT SOUNDS A LOT LIKE NIXON IN 1968. IS THAT SOMETHING HILLARY CLINTON IS GOING TO HAVE TO COUNTER DIRECTLY? JAMES: I HEARD THAT THERE WERE PEOPLE CALLING FOR A MOMENT OF SILENCE FOR THE SHOOTER IN DALLAS AND NOBODY CAN FIND SUCH A THING. I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE IN ANY SENSE THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE LOOKING TO UNIFY AND ARE CONCERNED THAT DONALD TRUMP IS THE GO TO PERSON. YOU KNOW I'M A DIEHARD DEMOCRAT AND CLINTON SUPPORTER. I DON'T SEE HOW HE'S PLAYING THIS THING ANYTHING CLOSE TO THE WAY THE COUNTRY IS LOOKING FOR. WILL 38% OF THE COUNTRY AGREE WITH HIM NO MATTER WHAT? MAYBE SO. BUT I DON'T ANYTHING THAT WILL EXPAND HIS 38% AT ALL. MARK: WHAT DO YOU WONDER ABOUT THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION ANITA: I WONDER WHAT THE NARRATIVE IS GOING TO BE. IT'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT YOUR STORY THE WAY YOU WANT TO PRESENT IT. THEY HAVE NOT GIVEN US ANY INDICATION OF WHAT THAT IS GOING TO BE. IT FEELS LIKE ONE OF THE GREATEST OPPORTUNITIES HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO PRESENT HIS STORY THE WAY HE WANTS TO PRESENT IT. CAN THEY RISE UP TO THAT OCCASION? CAN THEY USE IT THE WAY IT SHOULD BE USED? MARK: I NEED IT DONE AND JAMES CARVILLE. REALLY GOOD TO TALK TO YOU. COMING UP, WE WILL TALK ABOUT A POTENTIALLY MESSY RULES FIGHT THAT COMES AHEAD OF THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION IN CLEVELAND. AND IF YOU ARE WATCHING US IN WASHINGTON, D.C., YOU YOU CAN LISTEN TO IS ON THE RADIO RADIO AT 99.1 FM STOP MORE AFTER THIS. ♪ JOHN: THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION RULES COMMITTEE IS EXPECTED TO HOLD ITS FIRST MEETING TOMORROW WHEN THE NEVER TRUMP DELEGATES WILL TRY TO FREE THEMSELVES FROM THE SHACKLES OF VOTING FOR THEIR PRESUMPTIVE NOMINEE. JOINING US IS OUR PUBLIC AND ATTORNEY AND MSNBC ANALYSTS, BEN GINSBERG. WE'RE FINALLY ALMOST HERE AND IT SEEMS LIKE THE TRUMP PEOPLE THOUGHT THEY HAD IT UNDER CONTROL UNTIL A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO. WE ARE STARTING TO HEAR THEY ARE A LITTLE WORRIED. THEN: ALL OF THIS IS A MOVING TARGET. THEY ARE NOTORIOUSLY UNRELIABLE IN TERMS OF GIVING A HARD COUNT AT THIS STAGE. THE NOMINEES TEAM'S RIGHT TO WORRY ALWAYS AND OPERATE AS IF THE WORST COULD POSSIBLY HAPPEN. THEY HAVE A LOT OF TOOLS. JOHN: IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE SITUATION ABOUT TO UNFOLD, WHAT WILL YOU BE PAYING ATTENTION TO TO MEASURE HOW IT IS GOING? THEN: THE TEMPORARY COMMITTEE OF THE RNC RULES WILL RUN HER THE WHOLE LIST. THERE'S A LOT OF TEST RULES I WOULD SUSPECT FOLKS WILL BRING OF TWO GAUGE STRENGTH THAT WILL ULTIMATELY BE THE ATTEMPT TO AMEND THE CURRENT RULES TO INCLUDE THE CONSCIENCE CLAUSE OR UNBINDING CLAUSE. MARK: WHAT IS PROPELLING THINGS IN A WORSE DIRECTION THAN THINGS ARE HEADED, WHICH SOME OFFICIALS SAY IS HAPPENING MARK >> I THINK IT IS THE UNCERTAINTY OF THINGS. PROBABLY PICKING A VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE, IF IT IS ONE THAT IS REASSURING TO THE DELEGATES AND CAN MOVE IT TO THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND THE INDECISION IS NOT HELPING MATTERS. THE FACT THERE'S NOT A CONVENTION PROGRAM YET SUGGEST IN A ROUNDABOUT WAY THAT THINGS ARE NOT WHAT AND UP. I THINK ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE UNCERTAINTY THAT MEANS WHEN YOU TRY TO PIN DOWN DELEGATES, THEY ARE PERHAPS NOT ROCKSOLID AND WHAT THEY ARE SAYING OR EVEN WORSE, JUST NOT ANSWERING THEIR PHONE. MARK: I KNOW IT'S HARD TO ANSWER BECAUSE THE DELEGATES ARE NOT MONOLITHIC. BUT AMONG GINGRICH, PENS AND CHRISTIE, IS THERE ONE OF THOSE WHERE YOU WOULD THINK CONVENTION IS GOING TO BE ALL EXCITED FOR TRUMP AND RUNNING MATE ASK -- RUNNING MATE X? THEN: I THINK EACH OF THEM APPEALS TO DIFFERENT DELEGATES, SO THE WHIP COUNT GETS TENTATIVE AT THIS POINT. I THINK EACH HAS STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES FOR PARTS OF THE DELEGATE WILL. THE WAY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY PICKS IT DELEGATES IS SO STATE-BY-STATE IDIOSYNCRATIC THAT IT MAKES FIGURING OUT WHICH BLOCKS THEIR ARE GOING TO GO WITH REALLY CHALLENGING. JOHN: EVEN IF THE TRUMP PEOPLE WIN ON THE RULES MATTERS AND WAY, IT'S POSSIBLY MINORITY WHIP OR COULD BE ISSUED OUT OF THE RULES COMMITTEE -- MINORITY REPORT COULD BE ISSUED OUT OF THE RULES COMMITTEE. HOW MESSY COULD THAT GET, EVEN IF THEY GET OVER THE HURDLE OF NOT AMENDING THE RULES AND COMMITTEE, HOW UGLY AND CHAOTIC COULD IT BE IF THAT MINORITY REPORT GETS OUT THERE? THEN: ARGUING -- THEN -- BEN : THERE ARE MINORITY REPORTS ALL THE TIME AND HOUSE. HE PUT A STRICT TIME LIMIT ON IT, PROBABLY FIVE MINUTES ASIDE. EVEN IF THE RHETORIC GETS HEATED ON ONE SIDE OR ANOTHER, IT'S PROBABLY FIVE MINUTES AND THEN A VOTE. WHAT IT'S MESSY IS THE LENGTH OF TIME AND ROLLCALL PROCEDURES FOR FIGURING OUT THAT VOTE AND IT IS COMMON THE WATER FOR THE SHARKS. IF A MINORITY REPORT GETS AN UNUSUALLY LARGE NUMBER OF VOTES, THEN THERE ARE THINGS TO DO BEYOND THE CONSCIENCE CLAUSE THAT WILL BE WORRISOME. MARK: MUCH HAS BEEN MADE ABOUT HOW SOME CORPORATE DONORS ARE NOT ANTICIPATING AND FELLOW REPUBLICAN ACTIVISTS AND STRATEGISTS ARE NOT COMING LARGELY BECAUSE OF DONALD TRUMP. IN THE END, FOR A VIEWER, REPUBLICAN OR INDEPENDENT, IS THIS GOING TO COME ACROSS LIKE A TYPICAL REPUBLICAN CONVENTION OR SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND MAYBE NOT AS GOOD IN TERMS OF IMPACTING THE CHANCES OF THE TICKET? BEEN -- BEN: THE VISUALS DON'T REFLECT ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST. THE MEDIA COVERAGE IS WAY BEYOND MY CONTROL TO JUDGE WHAT IS WRITTEN AND SAID ABOUT IT. THE ONE PART WHERE NOT BEING THERE WILL MATTER IS IF ON THE PRESIDENTIAL ROLLCALL VOTE THERE ARE A LOT OF DELEGATE TO TRY TO ABSTAIN IN DON'T COME IN FROM THE SEATS. THAT'S NOT PART OF THE CONSCIENCE CLAUSE, BUT THAT IS A LACE WHERE YOU WOULD SEE AN ABSENCE OF ARTISTIC PATIENT. -- JOHN: JUST FROM YOUR SLIGHT OUTSIDER POSTURE, JUST JUDGING THE WHOLE THING, DO YOU THINK THE TRUMP FOLKS HAVE THEIR ACT TOGETHER? BEN: I THINK PARTS OF IT ARE VERY MUCH TOGETHER FOR TOP FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN IN THE PLOT FORM COMMITTEE AND THE RNC MEETING TODAY, IT IS A WHIP TEAM THAT IS ACTING VERY WELL AND DOES HAVE IT TOGETHER. IT IS UNUSUAL AS YOU KNOW FROM YOUR MANY YEARS OF COVERING CONVENTIONS NOT TO HAVE THE PROGRAM DONE, NOT TO HAVE ANNOUNCED THE KEYNOTE. THAT IS UNUSUAL AND DOES NOT FEEL LIKE OTHER CONVENTIONS. JOHN: THAT SEEMS LIKE A VERY EVENHANDED ANALYSIS. COMING UP, WE WILL BE BACK WITH OUR REPORTERS NOTEBOOKS IN CLEVELAND AFTER THIS. ♪ JOHN: HERE WITH US NOW IN CLEVELAND FOR MORE ON THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION IS OUR BLOOMBERG POLITICS REPORTER AND A REPORTER FROM THE NEW YORK TIMES. YOU HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT ALL KINDS OF TOPICS THAT HAVE COME PERTINENT AS OF LATE. TALK ABOUT OPEN CARRY AND THE LAWS THAT PERTAIN TO THE STATE AND WHAT IT MIGHT MEAN FOR WHAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE FACING HERE. GUEST: THE OPEN CARRY LAW MEANS THAT THEY CAN BAN THINGS THAT ARE TOO BIG LIKE -- THEY CANNOT BAN BABY GUNS LIKE THE AR-15. ANYONE COMING FROM AROUND THE DATE, THEY CAN COME CARRY THEM OPENLY AND THEY DON'T NEED A PERMIT. WHAT YOU COULD SEE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE WITH A LOT OF GUNS AND THEY COULD HAVE THEM LOADED OR UNLOADED AND A LOT OF EVIL ARE WORRIED ABOUT THAT. I WROTE ABOUT PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT AFTER DALLAS THE DAY ARE WORRIED IT'S GOING TO ADD TO AN ALREADY CONFUSING NATIONAL CONVENTION. THE LAW IS YOU CAN HAVE GUNS OUT. JOHN: NOT JUST CONFUSION BUT FEAR AND PARANOIA. THEY SAY WE ARE GOING TO COME PACKING. GUEST: THERE ARE THOSE GROUPS THERE. THE SOUTHERN LAW POVERTY CENTER DESCRIBES THEM AS A REALLY MILITANT EXTREMIST GROUP BUT THEY SAY THEY ARE THERE TO HELP THE POLICE OFFICERS DO THEIR JOB AND SHOOT SOMEBODY IS THINGS GET OUT OF HAND. THERE IS A PRO TRUMP GROUP HAVING A BIG CELEBRATION RALLY AND THEY SAY THEY ARE GOING TO BAN PEOPLE FROM CARRYING LONG ARMS AND THERE LIKE THE AR-15. THEY DO HAVE A PERMIT AND THEY CAN KICK PEOPLE OUT BUT IF SOMEONE HAS A LOADED AR-15 AND YOU ARE TELLING THEM NOT TO COME TO THE PARK, IT'S GOING TO BE HARD. MARK: TALK ABOUT YOUR GENERAL SENSE OF THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER RELATIONSHIP TO THE RNC AND THE DELEGATES AT THIS EVENT. MIKE: I'VE BEEN TALKING TO SOME DELEGATES AND RNC MEMBERS WORKING ON THE PLAT FORM COMMITTEE, GETTING READY FOR THE RULES COMING OUT AND I'M EXCITED TO BE HERE IN CLEVELAND. IT IS MY HOMETOWN AND IT'S AN EXCITING TIME BUT I'M NOT EATING THE SAME EXCITEMENT FROM DELEGATES AND RNC MEMBERS, ESPECIALLY THE FOLKS PUTTING THE PLAT THEM TOGETHER YESTERDAY. THEY HAVE NO REASON TO BELIEVE TRUMP IS GOING TO BE CAMPAIGNING ON ANY OF THESE ISSUES THAT THEY HAVE SPENT WEEKS AND MONTHS ON. VIRGINIA FOXX WAS RIGHT TO TEARS AFTER PUTTING THIS PLATFORM COMMITTEE TOGETHER AND THERE'S A DISCONNECT HERE BETWEEN THE DELEGATES AND THE CANDIDATE. I TALKED TO SOME FOLKS IS THAT WE ARE BUILDING OUR PLATFORM, HE'S RUNNING OUR CAMPAIGN, AND IT JUST THE WAY THINGS WILL BE FULL OF NOT A LOT OF REAL EXCITEMENT THERE. ASKING WHAT THEY LIKED ABOUT TRUMP. A LOT OF FOLKS SAY HE'S NOT CLINTON. I THINK THAT CAN BE AN EFFECTIVE CLINICAL MESSAGE BUT I'M NOT SURE HOW MUCH EXCITEMENT THAT REFLECTS. MARK: TALK ABOUT THE CHAIN OF COMMAND HERE. YOU GOT THE SACRED -- THE SECRET SERVICE. IF THERE ARE PROTESTS TO BE DEALT WITH, WHO TAKES THE LEAD ON THAT AND HOW TO THINGS LAYOUT OF EVIL ACTUALLY GET ARRESTED? GUEST: MY SENSE OF WHO TAKES THE LEAD AS THE CLEVELAND POLICE DEPARTMENT. A JUDGE HOLDING COURT 20 HOURS A DAY, HE EXPECTS ALL ARRESTING DOCUMENTS TO BE FILLED OUT BY CLEVELAND POLICE OFFICERS AND STRESSED OFFICERS COMING AS FAR AWAY FROM CALIFORNIA, THAT THEY WILL BE COMING HERE AND THEY UNDERSTAND THE CLEVELAND POLICE DEPARTMENT IS THE LEAD A ARE FOLLOWING. I SHOULD SAY IN THIS CASE, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS UNDER A CONSENT DECREE, SO THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE IS WATCHING BECAUSE THEY WERE FOUND TO BE BIASED. IN SOME WAYS, THE LOCALS ARE IN CHARGE BUT THE DOJ IS WATCHING CLOSELY FOR TOP -- WATCHING CLOSELY. JOHN: WHAT ARE THE DELEGATES THINKING IN THE DUMP TRUMP MOVEMENT THINKING? MIKE: WHAT THEY ARE TELLING ME IS THAT IT IS MOSTLY AP OR A VICTORY -- MOSTLY A FURYK VICTORY -- THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE PROCESS. THE PRIMARIES SHOULD BE A DATA POINT ON HOW THEY SHOULD VOTE ON THE FLOOR OF THE CONVENTION WHICH IS AN INHERENT FLAW IN THIS ARGUMENT. IF YOU ARE NOT FOR TRUMP, YOU HAVE TO BE FOR SOMEONE, BUT THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE PROCESS AND HOW TO PULL THE PARTY TOGETHER. IF IT LEADS TO SOMEONE OTHER THAN TRUMP, GREAT, BUT IT'S HARD TO MOTIVATE A LOT OF NOOKS. JOHN: WHO IS TRUMP GOING TO PICK? MIKE: GINGRICH. GUEST: GINGRICH. JOHN: THANK YOU. WE WILL BE RIGHT BACK. ♪ MARK: MORE OF OUR COVERAGE OF THE VEEP STAKES ON BLOOMBERG.COM AND WE HAVE A REVISED BLOOMBERG POLITICS NEWSLETTER FOR YOU TO SUBSCRIBE TO. COMING UP, EMILY CHANG TALKS TO THE GOOGLE SENIOR POLICY COUNCIL. MORE FROM CLEVELAND AND MORE ON HILLARY CLINTON MEETING WITH TIM KAINE. WE WILL HAVE ALL OF THAT FOR YOU TOMORROW. THANKS FOR WATCHING. SAYONARA. ♪

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Full Show: With All Due Respect (07/13/16)

Mark Halperin and John Heilemann are joined by Republican lawyer and strategist Ben Ginsberg, Democratic strategists Anita Dunn and James Carville, and the New York Times’ Yamiche Alcindor on "With All Due Respect.”

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