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00:00TO RECOGNIZE THAT WHAT IS CAUSING THE HAZE IS AGRICULTURE PRACTICES. THE COST EFFECTIVE METHODS OF CLEARING THE LAND HAD BEEN USED FOR MANY YEARS IN MANY REGIONS, NOT JUST IN SUMATRA. WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING IS REFERRED TO THESE BUYERS IS AGRICULTURE FIRES IF WE WANT TO START LOOKING AT THE SOLUTIONS. RISHAAD: WE KNOW THEY ARE AGRICULTURE FIRES. WE HAVE TO GO BEYOND THAT? WE HAVE TO FIND OUT LOANS THE LAND AND WHO IS BEHIND IT. -- GUANGZHOU LAND AND WHO IS BEYOND THAT. ASK THERE ARE ISSUES RELATED TO SPATIAL PLANNING AND JURISDICTIONS THAT ARE CAUSING SOME OF THE ISSUES. THERE ARE OPPORTUNISTIC INVESTMENTS GOING ON TO CLEAR LAND AND BRING THE MONEY TO AGRICULTURE. THIS IS THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM. IT IS EXACERBATED BY THE FACT THAT ALL OF THIS IS HAPPENING AT THIS TIME, WHICH IS CAUSING MORE SMOKE AND HAZE. IF THESE WERE DONE EARLY, THEY CAN BE FUNDAMENTALLY GOOD INVESTMENTS IN DEVELOPMENT. RISHAAD: WHAT WE NEED IS EDUCATION HERE. BUT TO GET TO THE EDUCATION, WE NEED THE POLITICAL WILL. ARE YOU SEEING EVIDENCE OF POLITICAL WILL? >> THERE IS CLEAR POLITICAL WILL, AND WE SEE INCREASED ACTIVITIES TO FIND THE CULPRITS , AS YOU CALL THEM, AND BRING THEM TO JUSTICE. THERE IS CLEAR SCIENCE THAT THIS IS -- CLEAR SIGNS THAT THIS IS ON THE INCREASE. WHETHER IT HAS GONE FAR ENOUGH, WE WILL SEE. FIRES HAVE BEEN COMING BACK EVERY YEAR FOR DECADES. RISHAAD: WHAT SHOULD BE THE NEXT STEP, PETER? >> THERE ARE SEVERAL THINGS THAT NEED TO BE DONE. ONE IS, RECOGNIZE THAT FIRE PREVENTION IS ACTUALLY MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE THAN TRYING TO PUT OUT THE FIRE, AS LONG AS THEY HAVE STARTED. AS YOU SAY, EDUCATION, AWARENESS. BUT ALSO, A STRONG MOVE TO MAKE SURE THESE PRACTICES ARE BEING TURNED AROUND. COUPLED WITH THE LONGER-TERM IMPROVEMENTS OF THE SPATIAL PLANNING TO MAKE SURE THE LAND IS ACTUALLY USED IN APPROPRIATE WAYS, AND THE RECONSIDERING OF HOW THESE AREAS, WE HAVE THICK PETE -- PEAT . RISHAAD: YOU WERE TALKING A FEW WEEKS ABOUT -- A FEW WEEKS AGO ABOUT, WE HAVE TO IDENTIFY THE PROBLEM AND MAKE SURE WE ARE NOT FOOLING OURSELVES WHEN WE LOOK FOR SOLUTIONS. THAT IS THE CHALLENGE, ISN'T IT? >> YES. I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT THIS WITH OPEN EYES. THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT ACTORS ON MANY DIFFERENT LEVELS. SMALL-SCALE FARMS, MIDDLE SCALE INVESTORS, AND LARGE-SCALE ACTORS. THERE ARE GOVERNMENTS ON DIFFERENT LAYERS, AND WE NEED TO ACCEPT THAT THIS IS A COMPLEX SITUATION. WE NEED TO NOT ACCUSE CERTAIN PARTIES UNNECESSARILY. IT IS A COMPLEX SITUATION. IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT THE FORMULA ONE RACE IN SINGAPORE. WE NOW HAVE PEOPLE EVACUATING THEIR LOCAL AREAS, AND WE HAVE WHAT I WOULD CALL HAZE REFUGEES. RISHAAD: THANKS, PETER. PETER HOLMGREN IS THE DIRECTOR GENERAL FOR THE CENTER OF INTERNATIONAL FOREST RESEARCH.

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