WEBVTT X-TIMESTAMP-MAP=MPEGTS:900000,LOCAL:00:00:00.000 00:00:02.836 --> 00:00:06.006 Sustainable investing is sort of an umbrella term. 00:00:06.006 --> 00:00:08.591 It's been a breakout year for Environmental, 00:00:08.591 --> 00:00:11.970 Social and Governance issues, known better as ESG. 00:00:11.970 --> 00:00:15.306 2020 was really an inflection for ESG 00:00:15.306 --> 00:00:18.685 and as a result, it's become a mainstream topic. 00:00:18.685 --> 00:00:22.981 That kind of subgroup called ESG is really by far 00:00:22.981 --> 00:00:25.859 the biggest area within sustainable investing, 00:00:25.859 --> 00:00:30.238 which in just the past few years has gone from nothing 00:00:30.238 --> 00:00:34.117 to more than $30 trillion in assets under management. 00:00:34.117 --> 00:00:38.913 Sustainability, it's more than an environmental issue. 00:00:38.913 --> 00:00:41.916 As everybody seeks to sort of invest their money 00:00:41.916 --> 00:00:43.877 in a way that they believe, at least, 00:00:43.877 --> 00:00:46.421 is more aligned with their values. 00:00:46.421 --> 00:00:48.131 I believe there will be a future 00:00:48.131 --> 00:00:49.966 that all investments are going 00:00:49.966 --> 00:00:51.801 to be looked through sustainability. 00:00:51.801 --> 00:00:54.345 That's why I really talk to our people 00:00:54.345 --> 00:00:55.430 about just four words, 00:00:55.430 --> 00:00:57.182 higher returns, lower carbon. 00:00:57.182 --> 00:01:00.018 The key question that we've been looking at this year 00:01:00.018 --> 00:01:03.772 is how much is sustainable investing helping the world, 00:01:03.772 --> 00:01:06.357 making capitalism more sustainable 00:01:06.357 --> 00:01:08.359 and how much is it making money for Wall Street? 00:01:08.359 --> 00:01:10.070 The Securities and Exchange Commission 00:01:10.070 --> 00:01:12.030 has come up with a regulatory agenda 00:01:12.030 --> 00:01:13.698 to bring in more regulation 00:01:13.698 --> 00:01:16.576 as far as ESG disclosures are concerned. 00:01:16.576 --> 00:01:18.953 You've got to pull back the top layers 00:01:18.953 --> 00:01:20.747 and look more deeply. 00:01:20.747 --> 00:01:22.665 There is a threat of greenwashing 00:01:22.665 --> 00:01:26.086 and it needs to be monitored, it needs to be dealt with. 00:01:26.086 --> 00:01:27.128 In that process, 00:01:27.128 --> 00:01:28.546 we decided that we wanted to look back 00:01:28.546 --> 00:01:31.091 at the origins of sustainable investing. 00:01:31.091 --> 00:01:34.010 I found a book that was published in 1991, 00:01:34.010 --> 00:01:37.889 dedicated in part to these two obscure financiers 00:01:37.889 --> 00:01:40.642 called Robert Schwartz and Robert Zevin. 00:01:41.476 --> 00:01:44.062 I set out to find out as much as I could 00:01:44.062 --> 00:01:45.355 about these two men, 00:01:45.355 --> 00:01:46.606 their investment practices, 00:01:46.606 --> 00:01:48.316 how they were viewed on Wall Street 00:01:48.316 --> 00:01:51.569 and also to find them if I possibly could. 00:02:01.162 --> 00:02:03.832 Robert Schwartz died in 2006, 00:02:03.832 --> 00:02:07.168 but I did find an extraordinary documentary decades old 00:02:07.168 --> 00:02:08.378 but I did find an extraordinary documentary decades old 00:02:08.378 --> 00:02:12.215 that had been made about him, innovating these practices 00:02:12.215 --> 00:02:15.927 by a filmmaker who spent a ton of time with him 00:02:15.927 --> 00:02:19.305 and followed him around across the country. 00:02:19.305 --> 00:02:21.766 Well, I didn't grow up intending to be 00:02:21.766 --> 00:02:25.395 an investment advisor any more than I did a fireman 00:02:25.395 --> 00:02:26.396 or a policeman. 00:02:27.647 --> 00:02:32.193 Business Not As Usual is an 18 minute film 00:02:32.193 --> 00:02:33.820 that I 00:02:34.821 --> 00:02:38.867 recorded on 16mm film 00:02:38.867 --> 00:02:40.869 when films were really films 00:02:41.744 --> 00:02:46.291 in the 1980s and the 1990s. 00:02:46.291 --> 00:02:47.876 At that time, 00:02:47.876 --> 00:02:50.670 I was considerably younger than I am now 00:02:50.670 --> 00:02:53.673 and I came upon people 00:02:53.673 --> 00:02:56.843 who I discovered were 00:02:56.843 --> 00:03:00.388 using their work in ways that I had never heard of. 00:03:00.388 --> 00:03:03.474 Twenty-five years ago I realized that a strategy 00:03:03.474 --> 00:03:04.976 of directing investments, 00:03:04.976 --> 00:03:08.021 according to progressive values could become a forceful 00:03:08.021 --> 00:03:10.356 instrument for social change. 00:03:10.356 --> 00:03:12.692 Robert Schwartz grew up during The Depression. 00:03:12.692 --> 00:03:13.985 The world's richest 00:03:13.985 --> 00:03:16.738 and supposedly soundest economy perished 00:03:16.738 --> 00:03:19.908 and small business was strangled by The Great Depression. 00:03:19.908 --> 00:03:22.410 He was born in 1917, 00:03:22.410 --> 00:03:27.410 so he was coming of age during the time when America was 00:03:27.916 --> 00:03:31.336 really at its lowest financially 00:03:31.336 --> 00:03:33.922 with millions of people unemployed, 00:03:33.922 --> 00:03:36.132 with millions of people going hungry. 00:03:36.132 --> 00:03:38.635 This had a lifelong impact on him. 00:03:38.635 --> 00:03:42.347 I did go through The Depression as a teenager 00:03:42.347 --> 00:03:45.975 and keenly aware of the problems of poverty 00:03:45.975 --> 00:03:46.851 and unemployment. 00:03:47.810 --> 00:03:51.022 Robert Schwartz was a senior level official at the U.S. 00:03:51.022 --> 00:03:54.442 Treasury Department when World War II began 00:03:54.442 --> 00:03:56.819 and so he enrolled in the U.S. Marine Corps 00:03:56.819 --> 00:03:59.405 and he was sent to the Pacific. 00:04:00.907 --> 00:04:03.159 After the war he went back to the Treasury Department 00:04:03.159 --> 00:04:05.203 where he worked in the international section. 00:04:05.203 --> 00:04:08.164 We should remember that practically every issue which we 00:04:08.164 --> 00:04:13.164 face today from high taxes to the shameful mess in Korea 00:04:13.670 --> 00:04:15.964 is inextricably interwoven 00:04:17.048 --> 00:04:18.675 with the communist issue. 00:04:18.675 --> 00:04:20.468 Sadly after the war, 00:04:20.468 --> 00:04:24.264 there was also kind of a series of witch-hunts that began 00:04:24.264 --> 00:04:27.809 in the U.S. going after so-called communists 00:04:27.809 --> 00:04:31.437 or leftists who were inside the U.S. Government. 00:04:31.437 --> 00:04:34.315 Apparently every time anybody says anything 00:04:34.315 --> 00:04:37.360 against anybody working for Senator McCarthy, 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:41.030 he is accusing them of communism. 00:04:41.030 --> 00:04:43.408 It swept up Hollywood, it swept up literature, 00:04:43.408 --> 00:04:45.368 it swept up Washington D.C. 00:04:45.368 --> 00:04:48.913 and the highest-powered corners of the U.S. Government, 00:04:48.913 --> 00:04:51.874 especially the Treasury Department and The Pentagon. 00:04:51.874 --> 00:04:54.544 This body is improperly constituted. 00:04:54.544 --> 00:04:58.423 It is a kangaroo court, it does not have my respect. 00:04:58.423 --> 00:05:00.758 It has my upmost contempt. 00:05:00.758 --> 00:05:02.260 Robert Schwartz caught up in this 00:05:02.260 --> 00:05:04.262 because he was a leftist. 00:05:04.262 --> 00:05:07.056 He was incredibly progressive for his time 00:05:07.056 --> 00:05:08.808 and he had to give up his career 00:05:08.808 --> 00:05:13.104 and his livelihood and the future of his family even 00:05:13.104 --> 00:05:15.440 was in jeopardy because he didn't know how, 00:05:15.440 --> 00:05:18.109 or if he would ever be able to make a living again. 00:05:18.651 --> 00:05:21.863 It created a 00:05:21.863 --> 00:05:25.033 lifelong desire on his part 00:05:25.033 --> 00:05:29.537 to challenge established authorities. 00:05:29.537 --> 00:05:33.124 It also led to him wanting to, 00:05:33.124 --> 00:05:37.920 in whatever ways that he could, use the next steps 00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:40.048 that were at that time unknown, 00:05:40.048 --> 00:05:44.385 to again, pursue what he believed strongly in. 00:05:44.385 --> 00:05:47.555 I was put in a position of really having to retire 00:05:47.555 --> 00:05:50.558 from the Treasury Department and started life over again, 00:05:50.558 --> 00:05:53.311 back in New York with the Amalgamated Bank. 00:05:53.311 --> 00:05:55.938 He finally found a bank on Wall Street 00:05:55.938 --> 00:05:58.483 that was a pretty unique bank and a pretty innovative bank, 00:05:58.483 --> 00:06:00.818 and also a pretty progressive bank. 00:06:00.818 --> 00:06:02.278 It was called The Amalgamated Bank 00:06:02.278 --> 00:06:05.114 and it was set up by a textile workers union 00:06:05.114 --> 00:06:09.410 that represented European Jews who were fleeing Europe 00:06:09.410 --> 00:06:10.828 in the 20th century 00:06:10.828 --> 00:06:13.748 and coming to work in one of the toughest industries, 00:06:13.748 --> 00:06:16.292 which was the textile, the garment industry 00:06:16.292 --> 00:06:20.755 and the bank was founded by the union as a safe repository 00:06:20.755 --> 00:06:23.508 for the workers earnings, for their pensions, 00:06:23.508 --> 00:06:24.884 for their welfare funds. 00:06:24.884 --> 00:06:27.053 But also as a way to provide credit to them 00:06:27.053 --> 00:06:29.931 so they could start the American dream 00:06:29.931 --> 00:06:33.267 and own a home and have access to finance 00:06:33.267 --> 00:06:34.644 that could change their lives 00:06:34.644 --> 00:06:37.355 and the lives of their families. 00:06:40.108 --> 00:06:41.943 When Robert went into the Amalgamated Bank, 00:06:41.943 --> 00:06:43.736 he discovered something pretty extraordinary. 00:06:43.736 --> 00:06:48.408 He was responsible for about a billion dollars in assets 00:06:48.408 --> 00:06:51.369 that the bank had, which is a huge amount back then 00:06:51.369 --> 00:06:54.288 and he discovered that a significant amount of these funds 00:06:54.288 --> 00:06:58.167 were invested by a union essentially 00:06:58.167 --> 00:07:01.003 in companies that were anti-union 00:07:01.003 --> 00:07:02.422 that were breaking strikes, 00:07:02.422 --> 00:07:04.757 that refused to negotiate with their workers, 00:07:04.757 --> 00:07:07.844 that were even engaged in supporting violence 00:07:07.844 --> 00:07:10.138 against their own workers on picket lines. 00:07:10.138 --> 00:07:13.891 And he thought that the bank should definitely alter its 00:07:13.891 --> 00:07:17.895 investment practices to not support companies 00:07:17.895 --> 00:07:21.149 that were engaged in unfair labor practices 00:07:21.149 --> 00:07:25.570 and this was really a first for anyone. 00:07:25.570 --> 00:07:29.907 Robert Schwartz believed that it was possible 00:07:29.907 --> 00:07:32.827 both to do well 00:07:32.827 --> 00:07:34.412 and to do good. 00:07:34.412 --> 00:07:38.541 Portfolios for clients may avoid military contractors, 00:07:38.541 --> 00:07:42.420 exclude nuclear power, destroyers of the environment, 00:07:43.337 --> 00:07:47.383 union-busters and business in South Africa. 00:07:48.259 --> 00:07:51.679 To replace those companies, I seek innovative companies 00:07:51.679 --> 00:07:53.097 meeting social needs. 00:07:53.097 --> 00:07:57.185 He was not after maximum profits. 00:07:57.185 --> 00:08:02.185 He was after maximum profits that would fit with 00:08:03.858 --> 00:08:04.942 what he believed 00:08:04.942 --> 00:08:08.446 and what most importantly, his clients believed. 00:08:08.446 --> 00:08:11.240 Had his clients not believed in that, 00:08:11.240 --> 00:08:15.620 my guess is that rather than change his principles, 00:08:15.620 --> 00:08:17.413 he would have dropped those clients. 00:08:19.165 --> 00:08:21.584 While Robert Schwartz was building his practice 00:08:21.584 --> 00:08:24.754 around these principles, another investment advisor, 00:08:24.754 --> 00:08:26.047 another economist, 00:08:26.047 --> 00:08:30.426 this one trained at Harvard, was building a very similar 00:08:30.426 --> 00:08:34.388 business for clients starting with his family in Boston. 00:08:37.350 --> 00:08:40.728 I started investing for myself 00:08:40.728 --> 00:08:45.728 when my parents began giving me stock in the company, 00:08:45.900 --> 00:08:46.817 they encouraged me, 00:08:46.817 --> 00:08:49.028 my father anyway, encouraged me to sell it 00:08:49.028 --> 00:08:50.988 and invest it, which I did. 00:08:50.988 --> 00:08:53.241 I must have been extraordinarily lucky 00:08:53.241 --> 00:08:56.786 because I invested all my money in only one or two stocks 00:08:56.786 --> 00:09:00.748 and I just had two or three or four big winners. 00:09:00.748 --> 00:09:05.503 I said, "Great, so by the time I'm 30, I'll be a millionaire 00:09:05.503 --> 00:09:06.796 just from investing." 00:09:07.672 --> 00:09:08.673 And did that happen? 00:09:08.673 --> 00:09:09.507 No. 00:09:11.425 --> 00:09:12.635 It did not happen. 00:09:16.389 --> 00:09:19.433 I started an organization called Resist, 00:09:19.433 --> 00:09:24.021 designed to deliver support for individuals, 00:09:24.021 --> 00:09:29.021 mostly for civilians, who used passive resistance, tax refusal, 00:09:29.610 --> 00:09:31.821 whatever, to oppose the war 00:09:31.821 --> 00:09:34.448 and a year later I started 00:09:34.448 --> 00:09:36.909 the United States Servicemen's Fund, 00:09:36.909 --> 00:09:40.538 which had the more important ambition 00:09:40.538 --> 00:09:44.208 and more useful ambition of supporting servicemen 00:09:44.208 --> 00:09:46.252 and women who opposed the war. 00:09:46.252 --> 00:09:49.380 So, in the day I'm teaching 00:09:49.380 --> 00:09:52.717 in the weekends I'm investing 00:09:52.717 --> 00:09:53.884 and in the evenings, 00:09:53.884 --> 00:09:56.012 I'm knocking on people's doors 00:09:56.012 --> 00:10:01.012 and going and visiting them to raise money for these causes. 00:10:01.017 --> 00:10:02.310 But a few of them would say, 00:10:02.310 --> 00:10:05.438 "What, a person with your politics 00:10:05.438 --> 00:10:07.398 you're in the investment business? 00:10:07.398 --> 00:10:09.483 I'd love to have you manage my money." 00:10:09.483 --> 00:10:10.026 They would say, 00:10:10.026 --> 00:10:13.654 "But I don't wanna own weapons manufacturers. 00:10:13.654 --> 00:10:17.241 I don't wanna own people who make napalm. 00:10:17.241 --> 00:10:19.869 I don't wanna own people who do strip mining. 00:10:19.869 --> 00:10:22.121 I don't wanna own companies in South Africa." 00:10:22.121 --> 00:10:24.206 So it was the investors really who brought 00:10:24.206 --> 00:10:25.041 the idea to you. 00:10:25.041 --> 00:10:27.251 It was the investors who brought the idea to me 00:10:27.251 --> 00:10:30.671 and I was very reluctant and very skeptical 00:10:30.671 --> 00:10:35.426 and it took about five years of success to convince me that 00:10:35.426 --> 00:10:39.805 I had been wrong and that this didn't cost anything. 00:10:40.640 --> 00:10:44.018 More than 7,000 anti-Vietnam War demonstrators 00:10:44.018 --> 00:10:45.686 parade near the Los Angeles hotel, 00:10:45.686 --> 00:10:47.021 where President Johnson attends 00:10:47.021 --> 00:10:49.106 a Democratic fundraising dinner. 00:10:49.106 --> 00:10:51.233 The civil rights movement and the Vietnam War 00:10:51.233 --> 00:10:54.278 both created similar momentum 00:10:54.278 --> 00:10:57.239 for some really clever activists 00:10:57.239 --> 00:10:59.784 who realized that they could use money 00:10:59.784 --> 00:11:03.954 and boycotts specifically to channel their activism 00:11:03.954 --> 00:11:07.208 into capital and to hold back capital 00:11:07.208 --> 00:11:09.710 or divest from companies that 00:11:09.710 --> 00:11:12.338 or other actors that weren't supporting civil rights 00:11:12.338 --> 00:11:14.715 or were supporting the Vietnam War. 00:11:14.715 --> 00:11:19.715 Probably the first really high profile war contractor 00:11:19.804 --> 00:11:23.891 that was targeted in at least modern U.S. history 00:11:23.891 --> 00:11:25.559 was the Dow Chemical Company 00:11:25.559 --> 00:11:29.397 and the Dow Chemical Company was manufacturing napalm 00:11:29.397 --> 00:11:33.317 for the U.S. military for its use in Vietnam. 00:11:33.317 --> 00:11:38.317 Nearly 400,000 tons of napalm were dropped on Vietnam 00:11:39.156 --> 00:11:44.120 it was estimated within a decade from 1963 to 1973. 00:11:44.120 --> 00:11:45.705 So the Dow Chemical Company, 00:11:45.705 --> 00:11:48.374 which was making napalm and profiting from napalm 00:11:48.374 --> 00:11:52.503 became a main target of the investment activist community, 00:11:52.503 --> 00:11:55.297 which was really coming together for the first time. 00:11:55.297 --> 00:11:58.759 The boycotts against Dow did start to take a toll 00:11:58.759 --> 00:12:01.011 and they proved effective. 00:12:01.011 --> 00:12:04.682 Publicizing the destructive role of military contractors, 00:12:04.682 --> 00:12:07.977 caused many on Wall Street to oppose the war. 00:12:07.977 --> 00:12:10.938 This lent more legitimacy to the peace movement 00:12:10.938 --> 00:12:12.565 and helped bring an end to the war, 00:12:12.565 --> 00:12:15.067 which claimed 50,000 American lives 00:12:15.067 --> 00:12:17.236 and over 1 million Vietnamese. 00:12:17.236 --> 00:12:18.320 After Dow Chemical, 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:20.072 the movement really started to grow 00:12:20.072 --> 00:12:22.408 and it grew beyond labor standards 00:12:22.408 --> 00:12:25.536 and a main new target of activists 00:12:25.536 --> 00:12:30.332 and activist investors became every major U.S. company 00:12:30.332 --> 00:12:32.877 that was doing business in South Africa. 00:12:32.877 --> 00:12:37.465 South Africa was run by a white minority regime 00:12:37.465 --> 00:12:39.842 and was under attack and under pressure 00:12:39.842 --> 00:12:42.511 from virtually all corners of the world. 00:12:42.511 --> 00:12:45.514 And it was really the activist community joining up 00:12:45.514 --> 00:12:48.142 with people like Robert Schwartz and Robert Zevin, 00:12:48.142 --> 00:12:50.603 who started to push the divestment movement 00:12:50.603 --> 00:12:52.146 in the United States. 00:12:52.146 --> 00:12:54.982 The exclusion of the companies in South Africa, 00:12:54.982 --> 00:12:59.945 from the S&P 500 has resulted in better performance. 00:13:00.237 --> 00:13:04.533 Both Robert Schwartz and Robert Zevin were surprised 00:13:04.533 --> 00:13:05.618 when they ran the numbers, 00:13:05.618 --> 00:13:09.997 their strategies of not investing in companies that were 00:13:09.997 --> 00:13:12.082 doing things that they and their investors 00:13:12.082 --> 00:13:16.086 found horrible, was actually working out incredibly well 00:13:16.086 --> 00:13:18.047 for their investors and for them. 00:13:18.047 --> 00:13:20.800 Do you remember if there was a moment when you really 00:13:20.800 --> 00:13:23.803 thought this could be a good thing? 00:13:23.803 --> 00:13:26.972 I'm not sure I remember some light going off 00:13:26.972 --> 00:13:30.559 but years later, I did some research 00:13:30.559 --> 00:13:33.521 about the effects of these screens 00:13:33.521 --> 00:13:38.521 and proved that the restrictions had no effect on results 00:13:38.984 --> 00:13:41.445 and many other people did the same research 00:13:41.445 --> 00:13:43.739 but didn't tell anybody about it 00:13:43.739 --> 00:13:46.450 because they didn't want to embarrass their clients 00:13:46.450 --> 00:13:47.660 who were opposed to it. 00:13:47.660 --> 00:13:51.080 Eliminating each whole sector 00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:52.832 of the S&P 500 00:13:52.832 --> 00:13:56.418 doesn't make any difference over 5, 10, 15, 20 years, 00:13:56.418 --> 00:13:58.045 you still get the same results, 00:13:58.045 --> 00:14:00.589 which is kind of amazing and counterintuitive. 00:14:00.589 --> 00:14:05.010 It's now a widely accepted idea that all these restrictions 00:14:05.010 --> 00:14:06.554 do not make any difference. 00:14:06.554 --> 00:14:10.432 Divestment should not be ruled out on financial grounds. 00:14:10.432 --> 00:14:13.060 The final consideration is not its effect 00:14:13.060 --> 00:14:15.312 on your investment portfolio, 00:14:15.312 --> 00:14:17.690 but its effect on apartheid. 00:14:19.191 --> 00:14:21.235 I think the most extraordinary thing that I've found 00:14:21.235 --> 00:14:22.695 in looking at these two men, 00:14:22.695 --> 00:14:26.198 Robert Schwartz and Robert Zevin was how they just flew in 00:14:26.198 --> 00:14:29.827 the face of everything that was happening politically. 00:14:29.827 --> 00:14:32.079 This was the Reagan - Thatcher era. 00:14:32.079 --> 00:14:33.497 Everything that was happening on Wall Street, 00:14:33.497 --> 00:14:35.499 everything that was happening in the City of London 00:14:35.499 --> 00:14:40.421 was the exact opposite of what these two peacenik economists 00:14:40.421 --> 00:14:42.715 were pushing as investment advisors 00:14:42.715 --> 00:14:46.844 and they were viewed somewhat openly at times 00:14:46.844 --> 00:14:50.222 with hostility by other investment advisors, 00:14:50.222 --> 00:14:52.892 by other people in the business that they were in. 00:14:53.809 --> 00:14:55.269 Almost never did they say, 00:14:55.269 --> 00:14:57.396 "Oh, that's very interesting." 00:14:57.396 --> 00:14:58.772 Almost always they said, 00:14:58.772 --> 00:15:01.734 "Oh, that's almost, that's impossible. 00:15:01.734 --> 00:15:03.068 That must be very difficult." 00:15:03.068 --> 00:15:05.863 Or "Why would you do that?" 00:15:05.863 --> 00:15:08.699 It always seemed like a foreign land to me anyway 00:15:08.699 --> 00:15:12.912 so the impact on me was nil basically. 00:15:12.912 --> 00:15:16.707 I just kept plodding along on my own path. 00:15:16.707 --> 00:15:19.460 The practice of social investment that I 00:15:19.460 --> 00:15:24.298 and a few others began 25 years ago has garnered increasing 00:15:24.298 --> 00:15:27.718 acceptance and respect with the huge amounts of money 00:15:27.718 --> 00:15:31.972 available for productive application, investment decisions 00:15:31.972 --> 00:15:35.893 can profoundly shape public discussion in social conditions. 00:15:35.893 --> 00:15:39.188 Socially responsible investing is a powerful vehicle for 00:15:39.188 --> 00:15:42.566 pointing the way to a more just and humane society. 00:15:43.943 --> 00:15:46.111 There is still a handful of niche funds 00:15:46.111 --> 00:15:51.111 and niche investment firms that really focus on 00:15:51.116 --> 00:15:53.077 the kinds of principles that Robert Schwartz 00:15:53.077 --> 00:15:54.995 and Robert Zevin put into practice. 00:15:54.995 --> 00:15:55.955 But in the past couple of years, 00:15:55.955 --> 00:15:59.291 what's really changed is Wall Street has capitalized 00:15:59.291 --> 00:16:02.252 on this demand by investors 00:16:02.252 --> 00:16:04.046 to want to make the world a better place, 00:16:04.046 --> 00:16:06.507 but it's done it mostly through marketing 00:16:06.507 --> 00:16:10.552 and underneath that marketing are some rather dubious claims 00:16:10.552 --> 00:16:13.764 about making the world a better place. 00:16:13.764 --> 00:16:17.768 We're seeing transformative changes in almost every sector 00:16:17.768 --> 00:16:19.019 of the economy 00:16:19.019 --> 00:16:21.271 and that's very, very encouraging, 00:16:21.271 --> 00:16:25.067 but investors who want to participate in this 00:16:25.067 --> 00:16:30.067 have to take care, to identify the risk of greenwashing. 00:16:30.572 --> 00:16:34.326 Success was the mother of defeat somehow. 00:16:34.326 --> 00:16:37.079 I think some of the original pioneers 00:16:37.079 --> 00:16:39.331 were actually the instigators of 00:16:40.874 --> 00:16:43.210 deciding that it really wasn't socially 00:16:43.210 --> 00:16:45.212 responsible investing anymore 00:16:45.212 --> 00:16:50.212 it was 'ESG' Environment, Social and Governance investing, 00:16:50.300 --> 00:16:53.345 which to my way of thinking, 00:16:53.345 --> 00:16:56.223 was taking something that was a social movement 00:16:56.223 --> 00:16:58.726 and that was intimately connected to people 00:16:58.726 --> 00:17:00.894 who weren't investors and didn't own stock, 00:17:00.894 --> 00:17:03.439 but were struggling to make a living 00:17:03.439 --> 00:17:04.565 or to end a war 00:17:04.565 --> 00:17:06.275 or to escape from a war. 00:17:06.275 --> 00:17:08.527 It somehow threw all those people out 00:17:08.527 --> 00:17:09.153 and it said, 00:17:09.153 --> 00:17:11.238 "Now we're a niche product." 00:17:11.238 --> 00:17:13.574 It's not just Wall Street, it's capitalism, 00:17:13.574 --> 00:17:16.994 it always finds some way to repackage an idea 00:17:16.994 --> 00:17:21.040 so that it's profitable and mass-producible 00:17:21.040 --> 00:17:24.084 and that's going to be hard to overcome. 00:17:26.795 --> 00:17:28.964 All of the really ground-breaking things 00:17:28.964 --> 00:17:32.760 that these two men did in finance are really what led us to 00:17:32.760 --> 00:17:35.304 this extraordinary moment today, 00:17:35.304 --> 00:17:38.223 where this has become a multi-trillion-dollar business 00:17:38.223 --> 00:17:39.266 on Wall Street. 00:17:40.476 --> 00:17:43.228 The problem for people who've invested their money 00:17:43.228 --> 00:17:44.354 in these strategies 00:17:44.354 --> 00:17:47.399 and in these funds, especially in the United States, 00:17:47.399 --> 00:17:51.904 is that fundamentally the largest funds don't address the 00:17:51.904 --> 00:17:55.074 key questions that people believe are being addressed 00:17:55.074 --> 00:17:56.075 by the funds. 00:17:56.075 --> 00:17:59.453 In fact, some of the biggest ones actually can contribute 00:17:59.453 --> 00:18:02.081 to making things even worse.