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Take us behind the rise of tick tock. You have a unique
perspective here because you cover the tick tock story from

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China. You covered it from Hong Kong and you're covering it now.
You're here from the US. Take us into it. Yes I've been looking

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at this company for a number of years and over the last few
months we decided to really take a deep dive into the entire

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rise of this of this company. The business story and how it got
so popular. And the most interesting thing to me about ticktock

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is that everything on the app everything about its rise is often
referred to as this kind of organic or authentic or spontaneous

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thing. But when you really look into it and you really dive in
and you listen really closely to what these executives had to

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say from the beginning everything was planned and so many things
that you wouldn't think are planned are actually planned from

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from their headquarters and shell. A party or story that I find
so interesting is about Meghan the aliens hit song that I think

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everybody has heard at this point and maybe seen the tick tock
videos. Tell us about that viral video and sort of how that sort

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of illustrates what you mentioned about sort of the tick tock
algorithms that are going on. Yes. So we thought this was such

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an interesting case study because you know at the Grammy Awards
this year you see Meghan the stallion you know do this perform

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this dance at the Grammy Awards come up and give this this
amazing emotionally heartfelt thank you to God and her mother

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and her managers. And then when you really look at it though the
one of the things that really pushed her over the edge was

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ticktock because
you know they a lot of these music industry a lot of these

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record labels they'll pick some songs and they'll push them.
They used to be they pushed them on the radio or you know they

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try to get get you on The Tonight Show or something like that.
But what really really pushed Meghan the stallion over the edge

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was this very calculated play by ticktock who sat down with
Megan. The stallion helped her create a ticktock account helped

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popularize this dance that really took off during the pandemic.
You know connected her with different influencers. It's just

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this very planned and calculated thing that you think just kind
of happens because the song is really catchy. But really there's

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just so much more planning and business that goes into it.
Shelly as you point out you make in the story is that social

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media isn't really a spontaneous as as people make it out to be.
Right. It is choreographed and it is orchestrated just not

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necessarily with the help of the company like it is in ticktock
for example. So take us into Bite Dance. The parent company of

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tick talking exactly what they're doing when they're
communicating with this crew these creators how they're actually

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helping these creators and helping them along to really help
with their bi reality and make them successful on the platform.

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Yes. So I think a lot of tech companies are more tech companies
are doing it now. But back when Bite Dance started it even

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before it was called Tick Tock there was an app called
Musically. And so the founder it musically would create these

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fake accounts and sit there and chat with people. These
teenagers even people as young as elementary school get get into

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their chats. Talk to them. Really study their videos build
relationships with these people. Call them serious market

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research. That's what I thought of when I was reading them. It's
it's so much market research and and you know it just goes above

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and beyond. I just can't imagine someone like Mark Zuckerberg
doing that. Now obviously he's paying attention but this is just

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a totally different level. And then they have these managers
today who will call their creators or send emails to creators

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being like hey this trend is trending on ticktock today. Maybe
you should make a video about it. And it's just this massive

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thing because these influencers of course they want to jump on
the trend because that's going to bring them even more eyeballs

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on them even more attention. And so it just kind of this
flywheel that keeps going now for people who are you know going

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to listen to this tick tock story. And for young people who
think they know everything about tech talk there is I wonder

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what you think they're going to walk away from after listening
to your podcast. Well I think the thing to walk away from is

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that this isn't just a fun thing that it's a real important
business story that is going to keep going. And for anyone who

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doesn't take ticktock seriously whether that's a business person
a marketer or an advertiser it's competitors the tech industry

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the U.S. government anyone who still thinks this is kind of just
a funny kid's app we'll know that it's not the case that it's

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really something a force to be reckoned with. You mentioned the
U.S. government and you dive into the legal woes that the

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company has faced over the last year. It's certainly been a
roller coaster and a lot of that changed with the new

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administration. What is the status of tick tock by dance here in
the U.S. right now. So that's a really interesting question

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because the last the funniest thing to me about last year the
pandemic of this pandemic and and wildfires and racial protests

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and the focus of the US president last year for so many months
was ticktock. And then all of a sudden it just went away. And so

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a question you get asked a lot is what happened to that. And the
answer is that Joe Biden and his admin. Gration came in and said

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OK we know this is important. We're gonna put an official hold
on everything on this ban on the sale on these court cases.

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We're going to study it and we're gonna come back to you soon.
How soon. We still don't know.